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Cessationism - Part 12

Discussion in 'Pentecostal & Assemblies of God' started by Saint Steven, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    Here is the fifth of six points the Cessationists claim prove that
    the gift of tongues have already ceased.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    5) History indicates that tongues did cease. Tongues are not mentioned at all by the Post-Apostolic Fathers.
    Other writers such as Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine considered tongues something
    that happened only in the earliest days of the Church.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    How would you answer the Cessationists?

    There are two basic problems with this point. And they are again grasping at straws
    to even make such thoughtless statements. Once again showing their complete ignorance.

    A) This ignores and denies what the New Testament tells us about the gifts.

    B) They have cherry-picked their historic references while ignoring others.
    And listed Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine as "Other writers".
    As if they were outside the list of Post-Apostolic Fathers. Just to be clear,
    Justin Martyr, Origen, Chrysostom, and Augustine were Post-Apostolic Fathers.

    Check out these quotes from the Post-Apostolic Fathers and historians.
    Which includes Chrysostom and Augustine; whom they had listed as "Other writers".

    A.D. 100 - Eusebius (Church Historian):
    Writing to the preaching evangelists who were yet living, Eusebius says:
    "Of those that flourished in these times, Quadratus is said to have been distinguished
    for his prophetical gifts. There were many others, also, noted in these times who held
    rank in the apostolic succession... the Holy Spirit also wrought many wonders as yet
    through them, so that as the Gospel was heard, men in crowds voluntarily and eagerly
    embraced the true faith with their whole minds."

    A.D. 115-202 - Irenaeus:
    Irenaeus was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John.
    He wrote in his book "Against Heresies", Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear
    many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit
    speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden
    things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual."

    A.D. 300 - The Early Martyrs:
    The early martyrs enjoyed these gifts. Dean Ferrar, in his book "Darkness to Dawn" states:
    "Even for the minutest allusions and particulars I have contemporary authority." He refers
    to the persecuted Christians in Rome singing and speaking in unknown tongues.

    A.D. 390 - Chrysostom of Constantinople:
    Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople, writes: "Whoever was baptised in apostolic days,
    he straightway spoke with tongues, for since on their coming over from idols, without any
    clear knowledge or training in the Scriptures, they at once received the Spirit, not that
    they saw the Spirit, for He is invisible, but God's grace bestowed some sensible proof of
    His energy, and one straightway spoke in the Persian language, another in the Roman,
    another in the Indian, another in some other tongues, and this made manifest to them that
    were without that it was the Spirit in the very person speaking. Wherefore the apostle
    calls it the manifestation of the Spirit which is given to every man to profit withal."

    A.D. 400 - Augustine of Hippo:
    Augustine, Bishop of Hippo, one of the four great fathers of the Latin Church and
    considered the greatest of them all: "We still do what the apostles did when they laid
    hands on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them in the laying-on of hands.
    It is expected that converts should speak with new tongues."

    Source link

    The bigger issue is what the New Testament has already told us about the gifts.

    At the outpouring in Acts chapter two the Apostle Peter tells us who the gifts are for
    and to what extent they are valid. Let's review those scriptures again.

    Acts 2:16-21
    No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    17 “‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.
    18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
    I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
    and they will prophesy.
    19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
    and signs on the earth below,
    blood and fire and billows of smoke.
    20 The sun will be turned to darkness
    and the moon to blood
    before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
    21 And everyone who calls
    on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

    Notice the three key points here.
    In the last days, God says,
    1) I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    2) I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.
    3) I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below...
    before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

    The timeframe for the last days is bookended with two things.
    A) The outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost at the beginning.
    B) The coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord at the end.

    This is the time period for the manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
    From Pentecost to the Day of the Lord.

    Let's continue to read in Acts chapter two.

    Acts 2:38-39
    Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
    in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.
    And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    39 The promise is for you and your children and for
    all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

    For whom is the promise of the Holy Spirit? All.
    - for you and your children (the Israelites)
    - all who are far off (future generations)
    - all whom the Lord our God will call (everyone)

    But what do the Cessationists claim? "History indicates that tongues did cease."
    Are they calling God a liar? Are they dismissing what the Apostle Peter said?
    Do they believe we are not in the last days? What are they thinking?

    Acts chapter two tells us that tongues are still valid for today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  2. quietbloke

    quietbloke Brother in Christ Supporter

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    Thankyou for this excellent study,Steve
     
  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    We are 2/3 complete.
    Point 6 from the Cessationists will require six more posts.
    It's a big one.

    Here's a preview of what we are contending with.

    Here is the sixth and final point the Cessationists claim prove that
    the gift of tongues have already ceased. The whole list is found in Part 2.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    6) Current observation confirms that the miracle of tongues has ceased. If the gift were still available today, there would be no need for missionaries to attend language school. Missionaries would be able to travel to any country and speak any language fluently, just as the apostles were able to speak in Acts 2. As for the miracle gift of healing, we see in Scripture that healing was associated with the ministry of Jesus and the apostles (Luke 9:1-2). And we see that as the era of the apostles drew to a close, healing, like tongues, became less frequent. The Apostle Paul, who raised Eutychus from the dead (Acts 20:9-12), did not heal Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27), Trophimus (2 Timothy 4:20), Timothy (1 Timothy 5:23), or even himself (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). The reasons for Paul’s “failures to heal” are 1) the gift was never intended to make every Christian well, but to authenticate apostleship; and 2) the authority of the apostles had been sufficiently proved, making further miracles unnecessary.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    How would you answer the Cessationists?

    It will require more than one post to address this mess. Let's work through it one point at a time.
     
  4. quietbloke

    quietbloke Brother in Christ Supporter

    +34,494
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    Pentecostal
    Married
    Thankyou once again for these studies.
     
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