CCM vs. Hymns or Is CCM good?

[ACuriousChristian]

Hello,

I'm a grad student working on a research paper that explores the type of music a Christian ought to listen to in their life/ what restrictions should we have in our music choices, if any? Is there a biblical basis for this?

Mainly, I am interested in the current ongoing debate or "worship wars" over what kind of music is appropriate for worship. I would like to hear voices from both sides. Do you listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music - for example anything by Hillsong)? Why or why not? Do you prefer one musical style such as traditional hymns over a contemporary style?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I don't listen to CCM. I usually find it to be (a) not very good music and (b) not very good theology. And if I can't sing it in the shower or in the car, what's the point?

 

[A_Thinker]

Hello,

I'm a grad student working on a research paper that explores the type of music a Christian ought to listen to in their life/ what restrictions should we have in our music choices, if any? Is there a biblical basis for this?

Mainly, I am interested in the current ongoing debate or "worship wars" over what kind of music is appropriate for worship. I would like to hear voices from both sides. Do you listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music - for example anything by Hillsong)? Why or why not? Do you prefer one musical style such as traditional hymns over a contemporary style?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

In 50+ years of following Christ, I have blessed by a variety of christian music.

Any of the human foibles associated with CCM can be found in other varieties of christian music, as well.

There are a number of hymn lyrics I have wondered about from time to time. But generally, it hasn't diminished my edification by them.

 

[RDKirk]

When you say "hymns," you mean the worship songs found in a conventional hymnal.

That is, "greatest Christian hits of the last two or three centuries" tightly curated by hundreds of Christians over hundreds of years into a single volume of music. So those are bound to be quite good from multiple viewpoints.

What you don't see are all the hymns that didn't make the cuts over the centuries to the book you have in your hand today. How many hundreds of hymns written over the centuries have not made it into that hymnal?

And most congregations and denominations will have distilled even that list down to maybe 20 or so of their own favorites.

When you say Christian Contemporary Music, you are referring to the hundreds of songs hundreds of artists are producing every single year, which we hear without the curation of hundreds of Christians over hundreds of years.

That's hardly a fair comparison of the two groups of music.

When I play my CCM station on Pandora, I give "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" to each song the algorithm selects. When the Holy Spirit Who abides within me commends a song, I give it "thumbs up." If He does not commend the song, I give it "thumbs down."

Checking my current Pandora stats, I see that I've given "thumbs up" to 87 songs and "thumbs down" to 362 songs. So the Holy Spirit Who abides within me did not commend 75% of the CCM songs I've heard.

That does not mean, btw, that 75% of songs were un-Christian songs or produced by faux-Christian artists even in my opinion. In fact, I have never given "thumbs up" to every song by anyone. Nobody scores on every swing. Not even Billy Graham batted 1000.

And of course, every song that I gave thumbs down to must have gotten a thumbs up by a lot of other people, or it wouldn't be a Pandora selection.

During the years my wife and I were members of a small, rural white congregation in Maryland (we were the only black family--all the other members were retired white farmers), I learned something interesting. That church played both hymns and contemporary country gospel music.

I was not a great fan of country music. But the interesting thing I learned in that congregation was that the Holy Spirit is not nearly as bigoted in His taste in music as I am in mine. Standing with those people and singing their country gospel along with them, the Holy Spirit Who abides within me commended those songs as well.

And now, when I look at my Pandora "thumbs up" list, I see some country and bluegrass songs among them.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I never got into CCM, even back in my evangelical days. If other people enjoy it, good on them. But I always thought it was sort of vacuous. I've even remember hearing some song lyrics that I thought bordered on heresy. But even without that, no thx, CCM is not for me.

 

[Anthony2019]

If I had the choice of the following......

1. Time honoured, sacred hymns, rich in theology, with music and lyrics that still comfort, convict, and leave us in awe of the majesty of God, despite passing through countless generations......

2. Contemporary songs with lyrics that make little sense, clumsily arranged and syncopated to fit predictable and tiring melodies. Songs that will be relegated to the treasury of forgotten worship music within a decade.

I know which one I would prefer!

 

[grasping the after wind]

I have heard CCM songs that I believe are wonderful and others I find dull and internally repetitive. Just like songs from an old hymnal. My personal taste runs more toward lyrics that tell a faith story rather than repetitively telling God something He already knows i.e. that He is great. So I prefer song like Amazing Grace to those like How Great thou Art but personal taste is not something we can all agree on. I would never tell anyone that one of those is superior to the other or unacceptable in a church service. Likewise with more contemporary music. As long as its purpose is to give God the glory, inspire worshippers and and does not stray from basic Christian belief , I see no problem.

 

[A_Thinker]

Hello,

I'm a grad student working on a research paper that explores the type of music a Christian ought to listen to in their life/ what restrictions should we have in our music choices, if any? Is there a biblical basis for this?

Mainly, I am interested in the current ongoing debate or "worship wars" over what kind of music is appropriate for worship. I would like to hear voices from both sides. Do you listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music - for example anything by Hillsong)? Why or why not? Do you prefer one musical style such as traditional hymns over a contemporary style?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Hymns are, simply, the CCM of the 16th-20th centuries ...

 

[Josheb]

Hello,

I'm a grad student working on a research paper that explores the type of music a Christian ought to listen to in their life/ what restrictions should we have in our music choices, if any?

If a research paper is being done then some objective criteria must already be established in your thinking so as to define, measure, and apply the "ought." What is your criteria?

Is there a biblical basis for this?

Most certainly yes.

Mainly, I am interested in the current ongoing debate or "worship wars" over what kind of music is appropriate for worship. I would like to hear voices from both sides. Do you listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music - for example anything by Hillsong)? Why or why not? Do you prefer one musical style such as traditional hymns over a contemporary style?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Are you aware this debate has ensued as long as there has been music in the church? Many of our hymns were tavern songs and many of them were drinking songs to which new words were written for already-existing melodies. In the early days of 1960s-70s contemporary Christian music (not Contemporary Christian Music) the likes of Larry Norman and Barry McGurie were criticized by grown ups while kids bought their records and attended their concerts with every opportunity. In the early 80s when Johnny Rivers (of "Secret Agent Man" fame) came to Christ he put our an album of well-known pop songs re-wroded to apply to Jesus titled "Not a Through Street." I suspect its songs are available on Youtube or Spotify. I have music that dates back to the late 30s. Many of the old bluemen were Christians and played worship music (Blind Wille Johnson, Rev. Gary Davis). Nowadays converts such as Glen Kaiser, Daryl Mansfield and Johnny Lang continue playing Jesus blues. Country (and Western) artists have often sung hymns on their records and some of their songs have been sung in churches. Peronsally, I'm inspired by the Allman Borthers "Blue Sky" even though I know it wasn't written in worship to God. I'm pretty sure they won't care if I appropriate the song for my own purposes and I don't care if they do mind.


I'm not sure what "worship war" it is to which you're referring, but if you link me to an article or three on the matter I'll read them and (maybe) join the debate .

 

[grasping the after wind]

If a research paper is being done then some objective criteria must already be established in your thinking so as to define, measure, and apply the "ought." What is your criteria?


Most certainly yes.

Are you aware this debate has ensued as long as there has been music in the church? Many of our hymns were tavern songs and many of them were drinking songs to which new words were written for already-existing melodies. In the early days of 1960s-70s contemporary Christian music (not Contemporary Christian Music) the likes of Larry Norman and Barry McGurie were criticized by grown ups while kids bought their records and attended their concerts with every opportunity. In the early 80s when Johnny Rivers (of "Secret Agent Man" fame) came to Christ he put our an album of well-known pop songs re-wroded to apply to Jesus titled "Not a Through Street." I suspect its songs are available on Youtube or Spotify. I have music that dates back to the late 30s. Many of the old bluemen were Christians and played worship music (Blind Wille Johnson, Rev. Gary Davis). Nowadays converts such as Glen Kaiser, Daryl Mansfield and Johnny Lang continue playing Jesus blues. Country (and Western) artists have often sung hymns on their records and some of their songs have been sung in churches. Peronsally, I'm inspired by the Allman Borthers "Blue Sky" even though I know it wasn't written in worship to God. I'm pretty sure they won't care if I appropriate the song for my own purposes and I don't care if they do mind.


I'm not sure what "worship war" it is to which you're referring, but if you link me to an article or three on the matter I'll read them and (maybe) join the debate .

I feel the same way about Van Morrison's "Have I told you lately" as you do about " Blue Sky". Some lyrics just seem to be something one might would say to God.

"Have I told you lately that I love you
Have I told you there's no one above you
Fill my heart with gladness
Take away my sadness
Ease my troubles, that's what you do "

 

[mnorian]

Admin hat on

this thread is has been moved from:
Praise and Worship Music Forum
to
Christian Music
for a better fit
and feedback.
Just don't over power
the amps.
Carry on.
​

 

[WolfGate]

Struggling with your question to start with because I don't put Hillsong in the CCM bucket, but rather a distinctly different P&W bucket. I can move past that as I think you are really asking if old hymns are more appropriate (biblically) than newer music.

Beyond that, the Bible instructs us to worship and you won't find any guidance on musical styles. There is nothing more holy about particular sounds, chords, time signature. What is holy is the focus on praising an worshipping Him. The style of music that most freely allows a follower to do that will vary depending on the person and that is therefore what is most appropriate for their worship. That can range from Gregorian chants to traditional hymns to P&W to different ethnic styles etc. etc. etc. Instruments used can be essentially anything from organ to piano to acapella to acoustic guitar to full praise bands to multiple distorted electric guitars etc. etc. etc.

 

[WolfGate]

If I had the choice of the following......

1. Time honoured, sacred hymns, rich in theology, with music and lyrics that still comfort, convict, and leave us in awe of the majesty of God, despite passing through countless generations......

2. Contemporary songs with lyrics that make little sense, clumsily arranged and syncopated to fit predictable and tiring melodies. Songs that will be relegated to the treasury of forgotten worship music within a decade.

I know which one I would prefer!

Of course, what we didn't get to experience was the vast majority of traditional hymns from past centuries that were relegated to the treasury of forgotten worship music because they couldn't stand the test of time. We essentially get the greatest hits of hundreds of thousands of hymns written over hundreds of years, all in a book of several hundred remaining. Charles Wesley wrote over 6,500 songs - how many are still in that list of time honored, sacred hymns? The same process happens with music written today.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Hello,

I'm a grad student working on a research paper that explores the type of music a Christian ought to listen to in their life/ what restrictions should we have in our music choices, if any? Is there a biblical basis for this?

Mainly, I am interested in the current ongoing debate or "worship wars" over what kind of music is appropriate for worship. I would like to hear voices from both sides. Do you listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music - for example anything by Hillsong)? Why or why not? Do you prefer one musical style such as traditional hymns over a contemporary style?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

CCM is one genre of music I absolutely can't stand. I think it is terrible music and most of the artists are trying to use it as a springboard into mainstream; as soon as they get their chance they will leave CCM behind (e.g. Leann Rimes, Katy Hudson AKA Katy Perry, Amy Grant, etc.).

To me, "Christian Music" is music that is written and performed to praise God. This would be "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs". Psalms and Hymns are simple, uplifting songs and tunes where the lyrics are emphasized and the music is to support the lyrics. In classical music, it is the other way around, because the music is so much more beautiful and sophisticated.

But upbeat "rock" type music of any kind seems to me to be inappropriate for worship and praise. It's kind of like having a Ice Cream Service at a Church where the idea is "Hey we like ice cream and we want to worship God so let's eat ice cream as a worship service!" No, it doesn't work. Ice cream is not bad in and of itself but it is not a good medium for corporate worship. Likewise with "rock" and contemporary music.

Even in the world, non-believers understand the importance of "appropriate" music for certain events. A secular university will play a somber "Pomp & Circumstance" that is not rocked or jazzed up, because they want to be appropriate for the special, serious occasion. P&C is a hymn, a secular one, meant to glorify one's nation. If worldly, non-believers understand this much about music, why don't so many Christians who would rather have CCM than appropriate worship music???

 

[A_Thinker]

CCM is one genre of music I absolutely can't stand. I think it is terrible music and most of the artists are trying to use it as a springboard into mainstream; as soon as they get their chance they will leave CCM behind (e.g. Leann Rimes, Katy Hudson AKA Katy Perry, Amy Grant, etc.).

To me, "Christian Music" is music that is written and performed to praise God. This would be "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs". Psalms and Hymns are simple, uplifting songs and tunes where the lyrics are emphasized and the music is to support the lyrics. In classical music, it is the other way around, because the music is so much more beautiful and sophisticated.

But upbeat "rock" type music of any kind seems to me to be inappropriate for worship and praise. It's kind of like having a Ice Cream Service at a Church where the idea is "Hey we like ice cream and we want to worship God so let's eat ice cream as a worship service!" No, it doesn't work. Ice cream is not bad in and of itself but it is not a good medium for corporate worship. Likewise with "rock" and contemporary music.

Even in the world, non-believers understand the importance of "appropriate" music for certain events. A secular university will play a somber "Pomp & Circumstance" that is not rocked or jazzed up, because they want to be appropriate for the special, serious occasion. P&C is a hymn, a secular one, meant to glorify one's nation. If worldly, non-believers understand this much about music, why don't so many Christians who would rather have CCM than appropriate worship music???

You do realize that hymns are, simply, the CCM of the 1800's, right.

Prior to that, everything was in Latin ... or a musical rendering of scripture.

Many hymns were adapted from contemporary folk-songs in an attempt to make worship more relevant to the people of those times ...

 

[RDKirk]

You do realize that hymns are, simply, the CCM of the 1800's, right.

Prior to that, everything was in Latin ... or a musical rendering of scripture.

Many hymns were adapted from contemporary folk-songs in an attempt to make worship more relevant to the people of those times ...

Apparently so were a couple of Psalms. "Lillies," for instance.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

You do realize that hymns are, simply, the CCM of the 1800's, right.

My problem isn't with the music being contemporary chronologically but rather stylistically. Hymns (that you are referring to, i.e. traditional western protestant hymns) are musically very different from contemporary music of today. Furthermore, your definition of hymns is rather narrow. In my Church we have a choir that sings hymns (called "sharagans" in Armenian) that are not like Western protestant hymns yet they are hymns, musically/stylistically different but hymns nonetheless.

Good example of an Armenian hymn:

I can't even compare any American CCM to this, not in the same league at all.

Prior to that, everything was in Latin ... or a musical rendering of scripture.

OK, so again this rings funny to my ears, considering that nothing was ever in Latin in my Church, but I understand that you're talking from a narrower view of Christianity and Christian music, that being only western protestant.

Many hymns were adapted from contemporary folk-songs in an attempt to make worship more relevant to the people of those times ...

In my post I tried to identify that it's not so much about the name of the genre - we can call a lot of songs from a lot of genres "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs", even CCM songs. But when we compare CCM to "hymns" or "psalms" or "spiritual songs" we are clearly talking about the difference in musical styles. That's what I'm talking about.

CCM tends to be, to me, really bad pop music. Kind of like the first round of rejected songs by Air Supply. Music that was meant to be entertainment but then was made really, really bad and then garnished with Christian lyrics to make it "Christian". The whole "praise and worship" style of CCM that so many churches implement today is really terrible to me. I can't even seriously worship in such a Church. To me it's like going to Disneyland or a nightclub but on a day where the music is really terrible and then trying to make that experience into worship. How can I worship God when a really terrible song that wouldn't even make the cut for Amy Grant is being presented as "worship music"? Especially when I know that there's great worship music out there from the likes of Handel? I just can't.

 

[A_Thinker]

CCM tends to be, to me, really bad pop music. Kind of like the first round of rejected songs by Air Supply.

It's akin to folk music ... with a spiritual meaning.

 

[bèlla]

I listen to music that resonates with my spirit and inspires me to praise God. If I find myself singing and dancing with no concern for the time and notice two hours have passed and I’m still worshiping Him; that’s a keeper.

I’m after an experience. Something that puts me on a different frequency which testifies with my spirit. Songs I can’t get enough of. And every time I hear them my soul exults. That’s a narrow list and I don’t listen to hymns or Christian radio.

~Bella

 

[WolfGate]

ArmenianJohn - when I distill down your two posts, I see one overall concept. You don't like the music, therefore it is "inappropriate for worship and praise".

There is nothing wrong with preferring a certain style of music for when worshipping with song. There is nothing wrong with music style being part of why someone attends a church if the music helps worship more fully and freely. It is a big error, however, to believe that music you don't like cannot be the perfect and appropriate vehicle for worship for other believers.