CBS explores impact of tax cuts

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Tax bill could fuel push for Medicare, Social Security cuts

Eight years of deficit spending to the tune of a 100% increase and the slowest recession recovery on record.

I know their are those who want to blame Bush for everything bad that happened during the eight years of Obama’s, that is just not reality.
The deficit spending was because of war, which were started before Obama took office.

I find it amusing (though not really) that our friends on the right cared about the deficit under Obama but didn't under Bush and now don't under Trump.
I bet China is thrilled.
 
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Brotherly Spirit

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Eight years of deficit spending to the tune of a 100% increase and the slowest recession recovery on record.

I know their are those who want to blame Bush for everything bad that happened during the eight years of Obama’s, that is just not reality.

Not blaming President Bush, I'm trying to be non-partisan and factual about it. Was increased deficits all President Obama's fault, does he deserve any credit for decreased deficits after?
 
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hislegacy

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Not blaming President Bush, I'm trying to be non-partisan and factual about it. Was increased deficits all President Obama's fault, does he deserve any credit for decreased deficits after?

The Federal Debt doubled in his eight years
 
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mark46

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I understand the arguments. I just disagree with both the policy and the method meeting costs. To start, I would prefer Medicare for All (including supplemental policies and drug policies). The overcall costs would be much, much lower.

As it is, the Affordable Care Act gave us lots and lots of benefits that we're not giving up. Expanded Medicaid and forcing companies to accept those with pre-conditions are the most obvious.

As a society, we have to decide how to reduce premiums. One option was to force those who didn't want insurance to pay. Another was to have the government pay subsidies to the insurance companies (Trump has decided not to). Both of these are gone at the moment resulting in higher deductibles and premiums. The Senate will decided what to do. The Republican COULD decide to run on a platform that Obamacare is terrible and that removing the mandate and subsidies didn't add mightily to premium increases. Or, they can agree to a fix, which they will do.

The 13 million are composed of two groups

1) Those who don't want insurance
The mandate was the most unpopular part of the Act. It won't come back, unless there is a system for all like Medicare. No one likes this idea of dealing with the reducing the debt from Obamacare. Everyone would rather reduce the costs, the real costs.

2) Those who will drop out because of high premiums or deductibles
This is where the congressional focus will be. Republicans promised to lower premiums. This can now be their issue if they enact legislation that brings premiums done, even if they aren't as low as they were in 2016.

Health-care cuts in GOP tax bill will cost people and states more long-term

The Senate Republican tax bill seeks to repeal the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate provision. The will do this by using the proceeds to partially offset over a trillion-and-a-half-dollar deficit that the bill would create.

While it sounds nearly painless that repealing this health-care provision would save taxpayers money — without the incentive from the mandate, some 13 million people, most of whom currently receive reduced-cost insurance, are expected to fail to take up that coverage, saving the government from making those coverage payments — it isn’t.

In the health insurance market, people who fail to take up coverage not only harm their own health and access to care, but they also shift costs and coverage burdens onto the rest of us who pay for health care.​
 
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mark46

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The Federal Debt doubled in his eight years
OK, then lets give Obama the credit for the increase in the stock market and the increase in number of jobs, and the lower number of battle deaths while we're at it. (all compared to 8 years of Bush)
 
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cow451

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OK, then lets give Obama the credit for the increase in the stock market and the increase in number of jobs, and the lower number of battle deaths while we're at it. (all compared to 8 years of Bush)
The cuts are supposed to create a bunch of new jobs. Well, unemployment is very very low. Who is going to be taking these jobs? People already working. Who is going to take the jobs vacated by these people? Immigrants?:scratch:
 
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LoAmmi

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The cuts are supposed to create a bunch of new jobs. Well, unemployment is very very low. Who is going to be taking these jobs? People already working. Who is going to take the jobs vacated by these people? Immigrants?:scratch:

If a person with the same political party you have is saying it, it doesn't have to make any sense!
 
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mark46

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The cuts are supposed to create a bunch of new jobs. Well, unemployment is very very low. Who is going to be taking these jobs? People already working. Who is going to take the jobs vacated by these people? Immigrants?:scratch:

One of the most serious problems in the US in labor participation. Folks aren't "unemployed". They've just stopped trying to find a job, and don't count as unemployed. There are many reasons: lack of skills, lack of re-training, inability to pass a drug test and lack of affordable child care are just a few. Another is that for some, they are financially better off not to work, and to stay home and care for their child.

But yes, many new technical jobs and agricultural jobs will be filled by immigrants, if Trump allows them to enter the country.
 
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cow451

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One of the most serious problems in the US in labor participation. Folks aren't "unemployed". They've just stopped trying to find a job, and don't count as unemployed. There are many reasons: lack of skills, lack of re-training, inability to pass a drug test and lack of affordable child care are just a few. Another is that for some, they are financially better off not to work, and to stay home and care for their child.

But yes, many new technical jobs and agricultural jobs will be filled by immigrants, if Trump allows them to enter the country.
I missed the part in the bill about training the unemployed for skilled jobs.
And, I thought conservatives wanted moms at home with their children....
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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Brotherly Spirit

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The Federal Debt doubled in his eight years

As it was said, the previous eight years had something to do with it. There was a lead up to the recession which decreased revenue and increased spending. After the recession revenue increased and spending slowed the next eight years. You can't simply look at the start of a Presidency to know the results of changed policies or the surface of a problem to know the underlying trend. Only way to add less to the debt is decreasing the deficit, which happened and if continued would add less to the interest payed; it's a long term trend solving a huge long-term problem.

Additionally I'll admit if President Obama had a Democratic Congress, there would been more spending with increased revenue; but now as it happens, a Republican Congress with a Republican President there would be less revenue with current spending (could increase or decrease, who knows?). Only when a Democratic President moderates taxation and a Republican Congress moderates spending, do we have any fiscal restraint.

Deficits/debt increased under Reagan/Democrats, decreased under Clinton/Republicans, increased under Bush/Republicans & Democrats, decreased under Obama/Republicans. Democrats always try to tax and spend, while Republicans go back and forth depending on the politics. Either to point fingers for what they helped cause or to starve the beast using deficits/debt for short term and long term reasons personally, politically, and ideologically.

Both parties have problems and solutions; If we could just be honest and consider what's true with facts, it's be easier to deal with each other. Also this isn't a team sport, we shouldn't be more for one party versus the other; least not to the point of ignoring the problems of one side and listening to the solutions of one side.
 
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mark46

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I missed the part in the bill about training the unemployed for skilled jobs.
And, I thought conservatives wanted moms at home with their children....

You are correct. The Republican tax cut fails to address the primary problems of the middle class worker: training, opioid use, childcare, cost of healthcare and the lack of incentives to be workers. IMHO, one should read Bloomberg's analysis of the tax cut to better understand this.

I suspect that we have a semantic problem. Trump Republicans and white evangelicals indeed have the view of women that you state. I would note that there are those who want women at home AND want them to work. Many companies hire Mormon women to be customer care workers and for other functions that can be performed at home. They ARE workers and within the work force.
===
AS AN ASIDE
It is more than simply training workers. In Ohio, there are plenty of workers who can take the jobs. They can't pass drug tests. Elsewhere, they don't have affordable child care.
 
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cow451

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You are correct. The Republican tax cut fails to address the primary problems of the middle class worker: training, opioid use, childcare, cost of healthcare and the lack of incentives to be workers. IMHO, one should read Bloomberg's analysis of the tax cut to better understand this.

I suspect that we have a semantic problem. Trump Republicans and white evangelicals indeed have the view of women that you state. I would note that there are those who want women at home AND want them to work. Many companies hire Mormon women to be customer care workers and for other functions that can be performed at home. They ARE workers and within the work force.
===
AS AN ASIDE
It is more than simply training workers. In Ohio, there are plenty of workers who can take the jobs. They can't pass drug tests. Elsewhere, they don't have affordable child care.
Women with children should be home taking care of them while the men are out working. Except for poor women. They need to get off their lazy butts and get jobs.
 
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hislegacy

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Oh look, this lie again.

chart.JPG
 
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FenderTL5

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Brotherly Spirit

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I don't understand why you won't admit it's not that simple to blame a single person. There was deficits, debt, recession, budget policies before President Obama. I'm not expecting you to be a fan of his or give him more credit than deserved; but you're being unfair.

After his first year when bi-partisan efforts ended to halt the recession; the following seven years of his presidency, the deficits stabilized and then decreased. While the last and this year it started increasing again; so I'm with you not to be complacent about it.

Just as Republicans deserved blame for the increases in deficits/debt early in President Obama's terms, and they deserve credit for it's decreases later during his Presidency. Now we have a different President with this Congress, regardless of the fact it's Republican; continuing to have a high level of debt with further increases to the deficits expected. If your concern is honestly about the debt,why is this President and Congress different? Is it all about supporting a certain party or ideology above fairness and truth?

Also here's the chart for the deficits from 2008 to 2017, showing the recession was the major factor for increased deficits and debt:
usgs_line.php
 
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TLK Valentine

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I find it amusing, but not amazing that my friend on the Left are now speaking of the deficit and China for the first time in nine years of silence as the former administration spent us almost into oblivion.

The current administration is finishing the job -- and you cheer him and sing his praises.
 
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