Caught red-shifted

[Jerry Smith]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0807tj.asp
Found on talk.origins usenet newsgroup, in reply to a post linking to the above article:

I saw the article and was about to post here when I saw your message. What
they say is so unbelievable that I thought at first it was a joke, then I
realised it is not April 1st today!

Although I'm not a cosmologist, I have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, so I know
something about the subject. Note that AiG do not give a reference, so they
are not backing up their claim. I think they are probably referring to the
work of William Tift of the University of Arizona, whom I know. He and his
friend Halton Arp at the Max Planck Institute in Germany have some, how should
we say, rather unorthodox ideas, including quantized red shifts. Creationists
like to cite him because he works in a regular scientific establishment, and
appears to do main stream (i.e. non-creationist) science. However, his ideas
are not mainstream, and as far there is no evidence for quantized red shifts.

Christopher Sharp

 

[Finrod]

What do you expect from Ken Ham? He's of the same breed as Hoving and Gish.

 

[Morat]

  It should be noted that Tifft and Arp, like many other scientists who work outside the mainstream, still do science.

  Why? Because they adhere to the method, and open their work up to review. They're unorthodox, and their work suspect because it's counter to the current understanding (which has a great deal to back it).

  But because they open their work to the mainsteam to review, because they adhere to the method, if they are correct it will ultimately become the new mainstream for others to defend and attack.

  

 

[npetreley]

A quote from the paper referenced:

Then in 1997, an independent study of 250 galaxy redshifts by William Napier and Bruce Guthrie confirmed Tifft s basic observations, saying, & the redshift distribution has been found to be strongly quantized in the galactocentric frame of reference. The phenomenon is easily seen by eye and apparently cannot be ascribed to statistical artefacts, selection procedures or flawed reduction techniques. Two galactocentric periodicities have so far been detected, ~ 71.5 km s 1 in the Virgo cluster, and ~ 37.5 km s 1 for all other spiral galaxies within ~ 2600 km s-1 [roughly 100 million light years]. The formal confidence levels associated with these results are extremely high. -- Napier, W.M. and Guthrie, B.N.G., Quantized redshifts: a status report, J. Astrophysics and Astronomy 18(4):455 463, 1997.

 

[Morat]

  Did you ever check out the papers I gave you, Nick? The ones that were quite conclusive on the subject?

  Further, I suggest you check out Geller and Huchra, whose deep surveys show that the apparant quantinization is an artifact of the way galaxies cluster. If you look in a narrow direction, you'll see galaxies at specific redshifts with significant gaps between them, but if you look wider the effect is lost.

  I've been informed you can see a nice diagram of it in most basic astronomy books, such as

Shawl, Robbins &
Jefferys, _Discovering Astronomy_, 4th Edition, Figure 21-30.

  Enjoy.

 

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Morat
Did you ever check out the papers I gave you, Nick? The ones that were quite conclusive on the subject?

Quite frankly, I haven't taken a word you've said seriously ever since you "exposed" Ken Ham's radio spot without listening to it. Your credibility is so far below zero that it's not worth following a single link you have to offer.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Convenient

 

[Joe V.]

Nick can't argue against it, so he attacks Morat's credibility instead. Do you really want to start arguing about who's more credible around here, Nick, or are you just trying to distract us?

- Joe

 

[Morat]

  Haven't I mentioned how bad Nick makes Creationists look? There's already that undercurrent of "They just accept without questioning, refuse to look at evidence, etc, etc, etc".

  Nick's so much the "worst version" of a Creationist that at times I think he's a troll.

 

 

[OneLargeToe]

He's a crappy Christian too.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by OneLargeToe
He's a crappy Christian too.

I'm also really lousy at bridge.