Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

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kepha31

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Ugly.......yes, confused No.

By the way, what is that Bible verse that validate Apostolic succession which ends with the Pope?
The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—
1) his own generation,
2) Timothy’s generation,
3) and the generation Timothy will teach. Apostolic Succession | Catholic Answers

Notice Paul says, "what you HEARD from me, not what you READ from me. We call it Tradition.
Around 64 AD Peter died and was succeeded by Linus.
Around 76 AD Linus died and was succeeded by Anacletus
Aanacletus died in 88, succeeded by Clement. It keeps going until you come to Pope Francis.
The list can found in any encylopedia, or google "list of popes"
 
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kepha31

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Can you identify this for me?

View attachment 200588
Be glad to. It's called The Miraculous Image of Guadalupe, but it looks to me like it's been photo shopped by a satanist. I would go with this one:


234-700x438.jpg

It's a fascinating story.

just a few notes
Normally a tilma (coat worn by peasants) shows decay after 5 years, there is no sign of decay after 400 years.
The colors have been compared and tests have shown that the flower like tints and abundant gold colors ‘cannot be duplicated.’ Tests have revealed that there are NO brush strokes and that the image could not be the work of a painter.

Artists note that the proportions of the woman are perfect for a maiden in her early teenage years, that the figure (Mary) is pregnant with child, her hands are folded in prayer as a sign of holiness and piety, and that her knee is bent as a sign of penitence and honor to God.

Photo imaging demonstrates that the eyes of the Blessed Virgin apparently even reflect what was in front of her in 1531!

At the time, the Aztecs offered annually at least 20,000 men, women and children in human sacrifice to their gods.

After the apparition over 9 million Aztecs converted to Christianity in little over a decade.
http://lifeteen.com/blog/our-lady-of-guadalupe-2/
tons more in that link
 
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bbbbbbb

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Be glad to. It's called The Miraculous Image of Guadalupe, but it looks to me like it's been photo shopped by a satanist. I would go with this one:


234-700x438.jpg

It's a fascinating story.

just a few notes
Normally a tilma (coat worn by peasants) shows decay after 5 years, there is no sign of decay after 400 years.
The colors have been compared and tests have shown that the flower like tints and abundant gold colors ‘cannot be duplicated.’ Tests have revealed that there are NO brush strokes and that the image could not be the work of a painter.

Artists note that the proportions of the woman are perfect for a maiden in her early teenage years, that the figure (Mary) is pregnant with child, her hands are folded in prayer as a sign of holiness and piety, and that her knee is bent as a sign of penitence and honor to God.

Photo imaging demonstrates that the eyes of the Blessed Virgin apparently even reflect what was in front of her in 1531!

At the time, the Aztecs offered annually at least 20,000 men, women and children in human sacrifice to their gods.

After the apparition over 9 million Aztecs converted to Christianity in little over a decade.
http://lifeteen.com/blog/our-lady-of-guadalupe-2/
tons more in that link

That is not the image I posted, as you well know. If you prefer to promote Satanism, that is your prerogative, I suppose.
 
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ViaCrucis

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All of that is wonderful information.

Now one question to you.

How has anything I have said on this forum site been different than what you just posted?

You said,

No preacher is needed, no church is needed, no baptism is needed.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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kepha31

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That is not the image I posted, as you well know. If you prefer to promote Satanism, that is your prerogative, I suppose.
I said the image you posted was photo shopped by satanists, and it looked rather horrifying. Then I posted half of Our Lady of Guadalupe of my own selection with minimal explanation. I would never post or repost such a disgusting image of Jesus' mother and don't pretend you didn't know. The worst thing is you are not even ashamed of yourself. Then you tried to blame me for it. You asked for an interpretation with phony innocence.
 
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Major1

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#
(Answering the last sentence in your post)
With deference to our Catholic friends; the topic is, "Catholics, what do you believe.."
As long as you keep challenging them, I would presume they will keep responding.

Now I did not post anything all day just to make a point to you @FenderTL5.

Now after not doing anything please read posts #921, #923 and 927.

How did I challenge anyone?

Who keeps coming back and back for more?
 
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Fidelibus

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You see........."I think" that President Obama was the greatest president to ever have lived. Is that true. Probably not to most but it is what "I THINK"


I realize this is off topic, but I have to ask.........If this is true Major1, than do you agree with his (Pres. Obama) pro-Abortion agenda?

Not to mention his pro- Homosexual stance. Back on post #903 of this thread, you quoted 1 Cor. 6:9-10.... and then go on to say.....

Homosexuals are going to hell.

Now for you to claim that president Obama was "the greatest president to ever have lived," one must assume that anyone to make such a claim would agree with him on his pro-abortion/pro-homosexual stance. So I guess what I'm asking Major1..... do you?

I would also like to ask if you Major1, if you belive your interpretations of Scripture to be fallible or infallible?
 
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FenderTL5

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#

Now I did not post anything all day just to make a point to you @FenderTL5.

Now after not doing anything please read posts #921, #923 and 927.

How did I challenge anyone?

Who keeps coming back and back for more?
All, including post #930 were responses to your earlier posts (prior to my comment), so nothing has changed - yet.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I said the image you posted was photo shopped by satanists, and it looked rather horrifying. Then I posted half of Our Lady of Guadalupe of my own selection with minimal explanation. I would never post or repost such a disgusting image of Jesus' mother. You asked for an interpretation with phony innocence.

Phony is as phony does, according to Forrest Gump.

I did not ask for an interpretation. I merely asked for its identity. I did not ask you, but I posed my inquiry to another Catholic poster who has more gracious responses.
 
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kepha31

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kepha31

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The point is...........are they BOWING DOWN TO A GRAVEN????

Ex. 20:4-5..........
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."

YOU interpret verse #5 for all of us. Does "BOW DOWN" not mean Bow Down".

You said you had never seen a Catholic bow down and worship a statue.

I agree that I do not know their hearts, but neither do you but what does it appear that they are doing.

Not, would you please interpret 1 Thessalonians 5:22...........
"Abstain from ALL appearances of evil".

Does that ALL not mean ALL?
What is YOUR interpretation.
This is not evil, its a devotional aid and not an object of worship.

crucifix-2-flash.jpg
Your Bible is a devotional aid.
 
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Goatee

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I said the image you posted was photo shopped by satanists, and it looked rather horrifying. Then I posted half of Our Lady of Guadalupe of my own selection with minimal explanation. I would never post or repost such a disgusting image of Jesus' mother and don't pretend you didn't know. The worst thing is you are not even ashamed of yourself. Then you tried to blame me for it. You asked for an interpretation with phony innocence.


Thanks for sharing the correct image kepha31
 
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Goatee

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I think we are all very blessed to have Our Holy Mother, Mary, as our Heavenly Mother. What son would not want people to love His mother?

As I said before, the Apostles knew a heck of a lot more from Jesus than what is written in the Bible. Would they have kept silent on it? Why didn't they write it all down?

I believe they didn't keep silent. I believe they passed on verbally a lot of teachings. John did state that there would not be enough books to contain all the teachings of Jesus.

This is why I believe the Holy Spirit has given knowledge to the CC. Through Tradition etc. We have learnt more about our Heavenly Mother and other things.

For some, 'Christianity' begins and ends in the Bible. For me, it began in the Bible but through Jesus, his life, death and resurrection and via the Holy Spirit working through the Apostles and their successors, via the Catholic Church it has continued to grow.
 
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Major1

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I realize this is off topic, but I have to ask.........If this is true Major1, than do you agree with his (Pres. Obama) pro-Abortion agenda?

Not to mention his pro- Homosexual stance. Back on post #903 of this thread, you quoted 1 Cor. 6:9-10.... and then go on to say.....



Now for you to claim that president Obama was "the greatest president to ever have lived," one must assume that anyone to make such a claim would agree with him on his pro-abortion/pro-homosexual stance. So I guess what I'm asking Major1..... do you?

I would also like to ask if you Major1, if you belive your interpretations of Scripture to be fallible or infallible?

NO! NO ! NO! It was only an extreme example done to show how absurd some of the excuses and examples being postulated here for us to see.

Are my "INterpretations" infallible???? The Word of God is perfect and is infallible but just like ALL men I am not.

Another trick questions my friend? Are you infallible? Are you like me in that you are a sinner saved by grace?

I actually do not have any "Interpretations" at all. I am not an Interpreter. I read what the Scripture says, believe what it says and talk about what it says.

If I propose a Bible teaching which is inconsistent with the Word of God then I AM WRONG.

For example........If I say that it is breaking the 2nd Commandment of God to bow to a graven image......That my friend IS NOT AN INTERPRETATION.

Ex. 20:5.........
"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me".

Me saying that is simply reading the words and BELIEVING WHAT GOD SAID.

An "INTERPRETATION" would then in fact be trying to say that those words mean something else.
 
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Major1

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I think we are all very blessed to have Our Holy Mother, Mary, as our Heavenly Mother. What son would not want people to love His mother?

As I said before, the Apostles knew a heck of a lot more from Jesus than what is written in the Bible. Would they have kept silent on it? Why didn't they write it all down?

I believe they didn't keep silent. I believe they passed on verbally a lot of teachings. John did state that there would not be enough books to contain all the teachings of Jesus.

This is why I believe the Holy Spirit has given knowledge to the CC. Through Tradition etc. We have learnt more about our Heavenly Mother and other things.

For some, 'Christianity' begins and ends in the Bible. For me, it began in the Bible but through Jesus, his life, death and resurrection and via the Holy Spirit working through the Apostles and their successors, via the Catholic Church it has continued to grow.

As I have said before, you are welcome to believe that but the Bible fact is that there is NO BIBLE VERSES which explain or even suggest an apostolic succession.

Nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.” Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray in Galatians 2:11-14.

Yes, the apostle Peter had a prominent role. Yes, perhaps the apostle Peter was the leader of the apostles (although the book of Acts records the apostle Paul and Jesus’ half brother James as also having prominent leadership roles). Whatever the case, Peter was not the “commander” or supreme authority over the other apostles. Even if apostolic succession could be demonstrated from Scripture, which it cannot, apostolic succession would not result in Peter’s successors being absolutely supreme over the other apostles’ successors.
 
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Major1

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This is not evil, its a devotional aid and not an object of worship.

crucifix-2-flash.jpg
Your Bible is a devotional aid.

Jesus is not on the cross! Jesus was buried, and rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.

You do not know what Jesus looked like. You are worshipping a figure on a cross and just will not admit it.

Ex. 20:4-5.............
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me."

Now YOU can slice it and dice and spin it an spiritualize it anyway you want because I do not care! But the fact is right there in the black and white of God's Word my friend.

I am a sinner saved by grace and My Bible is the perfect Word of God.
 
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Major1

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The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles’ teachings would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first three generations of apostolic succession—
1) his own generation,
2) Timothy’s generation,
3) and the generation Timothy will teach. Apostolic Succession | Catholic Answers

Notice Paul says, "what you HEARD from me, not what you READ from me. We call it Tradition.
Around 64 AD Peter died and was succeeded by Linus.
Around 76 AD Linus died and was succeeded by Anacletus
Aanacletus died in 88, succeeded by Clement. It keeps going until you come to Pope Francis.
The list can found in any encylopedia, or google "list of popes"

NOW that is an "Interpretation". YOUR interpretation.

It is not however what the Scripture in fact says. What you have done is to make it say what YOU want it to say.

I do understand that the verse you used comes from a Catholic website and of course you will have to agree with it because you are a Catholic. But what does Paul actually say because he does NOT say anything about Apostolic succession.

When we read the passage what we see in this verse would refer to oral revelation from Paul's inspired mouth to Timothy, but it says nothing about apostolic succession. But lets not forget that Paul had written 13 other letters before 2 Timothy, which was his last. We must include Paul's writings in this co

Now THINK, If this text was the basis for succession, then it would mean that Timothy was Paul's successor. This is nowhere recorded in tradition!

Then please consider with me that in 2 Tim 2:2, we have the famous 4 generation discipleship passage:
1. Paul
2. Timothy
3. Faithful men
4. Others.

What was taught within these four generations may have included oral revelation, but this oral doctrine was also taught in scripture and that is the KEY!

As a Roman Catholic and Orthodox defenders who see the succession of Bishops or the Pope, look elsewhere! First, the one's who were to be entrusted were, "faithful", not Bishops. Timothy was not a Bishop, was he to chose the next bishops to entrust the oral tradition to them?

Second, the office of one bishop over the presbytery, did not exist until after 150 AD. Diocesan bishops, where one bishop was over another did not exist until 250. (Click here for proof.) So to suggest this passage teaches succession in any Catholic or Orthodox way, is vacuous.

Where was Timothy a bishop, who succeeded him? Shouldn't Timothy have been a bishop at Rome if this teaches succession? The tradition that Timothy was bishop of Ephesus is very late and most scholars believe it is a fabrication. The Orthodox church, with nothing else, just blindly accept it at true. There is No tradition says that Timothy was Paul's successor. We have no line of successors in history either. Why didn't Paul make this claim of succession to someone who was to be bishop of Rome. And why didn't Peter make this statement? Because it did not happen!!!!

Finally, it is indeed odd for Roman Catholics to claim this verse teaches succession when the church at Ephesus, where the fabricated tradition says Timothy was bishop, is under the umbrella of the Greek Orthodox church. If I were Roman Catholic I would never use any verse that implied Timothy was specifically included in succession of any kind.

But you are free to "Interpret" this anyway you choose. All I do is try to teach the Word of God and not "interpret" anything.
 
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Gabriel Anton

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Peace be with you.

As a Catholic, I Love And Honour and Venerate and Revere Mary, the Mother of God.

I realise that I can improve my Love for You even more My Mother, Mary.

I've decided that I will kneel down in front of You when I see a Statue of You, My Dear Mother.

I will not be ashamed to kneel down in front of a Statue of Mary, the Mother of God.

I Love to Venerate and Honour and Revere Mary, the Mother of God.

Mary, the Mother of God as the Ark of Spiritual Wisdom has taught me about Humility and how to love God deeper.

I Love You, Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ, Saviour of the World.

I will plaster my love for you here everyday in this thread to remind myself how Important You are to me, My Mother Mary.

God bless you, Mary, Mother of Our Precious Saviour, Jesus Christ.

God bless you.
 
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