Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

[Goatee]

Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been saved—"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.

Above paragraphs copied from elsewhere

 

[PeaceB]

Good news for sure.

I would recommend that you actually read the Scriptures you posted as NOT A SINGLE one supports any conclusion you spoke of.....NOT ONE!

Not only didn't the Scriptures you used support your conclusion they did not even suggest what you stated.

I am well aware of your position. You have stated it many times. You do not need to post it in all capital letters, in boldface, and with an exclamation point in order for me to understand it. I understand your position, I disagree with it, and I do not desire to waste my time engaging you in a lengthy debate over those doctrines and those Scriptures. If you would like further detailed information concerning those topics, there are many books written concerning them, and many resources online that you may use. I am perfectly comfortable with what I believe.

IF you choose to believe that they do then God bless you. I will not argue your ability to believe as you choose.

Thank you.

I would however like to ask you one question. Have you been "Born Again"?

Yes. Specifically, I was born again when I was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Two questions in response to you post.

1. Name one sure way or method, that a new believer in Christ, can know that the Roman Catholic church is the one true church.

There are two steps to my method:
A) Have a mind that is truly open to pursuing the truth, no matter where it leads.
B) Approach God in humble prayer, and ask him to show you the truth concerning the Catholic Church.

2. Are you "Born Again"?

Please refer to my answer above.

 

[Major1]

I am well aware of your position. You have stated it many times. You do not need to post it in all capital letters, in boldface, and with an exclamation point in order for me to understand it. I understand your position, I disagree with it, and I do not desire to waste my time engaging you in a lengthy debate over those doctrines and those Scriptures. If you would like further detailed information concerning those topics, there are many books written concerning them, and many resources online that you may use. I am perfectly comfortable with what I believe.


Thank you.

Yes. Specifically, I was born again when I was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


There are two steps to my method:
A) Have a mind that is truly open to pursuing the truth, no matter where it leads.
B) Approach God in humble prayer, and ask him to show you the truth concerning the Catholic Church.


Please refer to my answer above.

I do hope that you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour because that is the only way anyone can be born again.

 

[Major1]

Catholics and Protestants agree that to be saved, you have to be born again. Jesus said so: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When a Catholic says that he has been "born again," he refers to the transformation that God’s grace accomplished in him during baptism. Evangelical Protestants typically mean something quite different when they talk about being "born again."

For an Evangelical, becoming "born again" often happens like this: He goes to a crusade or a revival where a minister delivers a sermon telling him of his need to be "born again."

"If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and believe he died for your sins, you’ll be born again!" says the preacher. So the gentleman makes "a decision for Christ" and at the altar call goes forward to be led in "the sinner’s prayer" by the minister. Then the minister tells all who prayed the sinner’s prayer that they have been saved—"born again." But is the minister right? Not according to the Bible.

Above paragraphs copied from elsewhere

Romans 10:9...........
" if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

No preacher is needed, no church is needed, no baptism is needed.

I do hope that you have done that.

 

[PeaceB]

I do hope that you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour because that is the only way anyone can be born again.

Jesus is God, he is Lord, and he is my Savior.

I hope that you believe the same, despite your lack of understanding of what the bible says about being born again.

 

[PeaceB]

Romans 10:9...........
" if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

No preacher is needed, no church is needed, no baptism is needed.

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”​

 

[ViaCrucis]

Romans 10:9...........
" if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

No preacher is needed, no church is needed, no baptism is needed.

I do hope that you have done that.

If Romans 10:9 was the only passage in the Bible, you may have a point. But it's not.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”​

Exactly. Without the preaching of the Gospel nobody can hear the word, and without the word nobody can come to faith, because "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Romans 10:17); so Christ commissioned His Church to preach and to baptize, by which the word goes forth and creates faith, and in this faith one can call on the name of the Lord. It is impossible to call on the name of the Lord without faith.

The Spirit does this through the Means given to the Church by Christ's command.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[kepha31]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I do not agree with your opinion and I will try to give you the Bible teaching of this event.

In John's Gospel, Jesus Christ himself refers to this incident with Moses and the bronze serpent. In John 3:14-15, Jesus tells Nicodemus.........
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life."

The point in Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus is that he came into the world to save a world that was already condemned, and that this salvation comes through him being "lifted up." The world, and us in it, are "condemned already" due to the sin of Adam and Eve, and Jesus saves us through his death on the cross (i.e. he was "lifted up"). All who look on Christ in faith receive this redemption from death; those who do not are not condemned by Christ, because they were already condemned due to sin.

Sin came into the world through the serpent, Satan, and now here in Numbers the people are suffering the consequences of sin, namely death; they are "condemned already" (Numbers 21:6-7).

Christ interprets the event in Numbers in light of what he came to do; he came to die by being raised up on the cross in order to save people who were "condemned already" by the serpent Satan and the sin he brought into the world. So, what happens in Numbers points forward to what Christ was coming to do on the cross for all people.

I completely agree. My point is the bronze serpent was a PHYSICAL OBJECT as an instrument of healing, contrary to radical iconoclasts who think that ALL physical objects should be banned.

 

[Major1]

I completely agree. My point is the bronze serpent was a PHYSICAL OBJECT as an instrument of healing, contrary to radical iconoclasts who think that ALL physical objects should be banned.

I understand your point, however, I can not agree with your opinion. The point is that the command against making “carved images” was a command against MAN making idols to worship. God did not command Moses to make an idol for the people to worship but a symbol to which they could look in faith and be healed.

I would hope that you could see that there is a difference between a God-appointed representation of symbol as in the bread and wine in the Lord’s Supper and a man-made graven image which men bow down to thus becoming an idol.

 

[Major1]

If Romans 10:9 was the only passage in the Bible, you may have a point. But it's not.

-CryptoLutheran

Really ???? I only quoted that one because it is the most know and most used but it certainly is not the only one in the Scriptures. Allow me to give you more that compare and support the way a man gets saved..............

Luke 12:8............
“And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God".

Philippians 2:11..............
"and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Acts 16:31 ..................
"And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Matt. 10:32-33 .............
"So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."

Now if that is not enough, let me know and I can post many more for you.

 

[Major1]

14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”​

Excellent response of Bible teachings!!!!!!!!!! Now we are getting somewhere> We can discuss Bible stuff instead of religion.

Rom. 10:17........
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing from the Word of God".

Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ does not come from philosophy, religion, phycology, politics or our own imaginations. As learned as you are, I am sure that you know the context of Romans 10:14 and 15 which you looked up and posted.

The Jews, Pauls own people hated him. Now they loved "Saul" but they hated Paul (Same person).
Paul then is showing the logic of his position. They, the Jews rejected his claim or the right of any apostle to proclaim that the gospel omitted the Mosaic system which had degenerated into Pharisaism.

Paul's point is actually a quote from Isaiah 52:7. Paul shows that there must be messengers of the gospel who have credentials from God. The logic is that Paul and the apostles received the gospel from God and they had to be sent in order for people to hear so that they might believe and be saved because if not, they would have no way to call on God. It is all about believing.
Remember......there was no Bible in Paul's day which is the only place the gospel is found.

Faith comes from the Word Of God! Until a man hears the Word of God he can not be saved. I did not say that, That is what the Bible says and I did not have any input in it at all.

Thank you for the opportunity to share this with you. Bless you!

 

[kepha31]

I understand your point, however, I can not agree with your opinion. The point is that the command against making “carved images” was a command against MAN making idols to worship. God did not command Moses to make an idol for the people to worship but a symbol to which they could look in faith and be healed.

I would hope that you could see that there is a difference between a God-appointed representation of symbol as in the bread and wine in the Lord’s Supper and a man-made graven image which men bow down to thus becoming an idol.

Again, I agree with you. No statue or image is bowed down to in a manner of worship, that is an anti-Catholic myth that won't go away. Veneration is not idolatry. Any dictionary supports this.
Worshiping a thing as a god is what makes it an an idol, not posture in prayer.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
Superstition

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41

Idolatry

2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47

footnotes
41 Cf. Mt 23:16-22.
42 Ps 115:4-5, 8; cf. Isa 44:9-20; Jer 10:1-16; Dan 14:1-30; Bar 6; Wis 13:1-15:19.
43 Josh 3:10; Ps 42:3; etc.
44 Mt 6:24.
45 Cf. Rev 13-14.
46 Cf. Gal 5:20; Eph 5:5.
47 Origen, Contra Celsum 2,40G 11,861.

Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Japanese bow constantly, but that that does mean they worship each other as gods. Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshiping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.
Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

 

[Major1]

Jesus is God, he is Lord, and he is my Savior.

I hope that you believe the same, despite your lack of understanding of what the bible says about being born again.

Praise God! What a blessing to hear testimony.

I have to be very carefull here. I do not want to give you the wrong impression or one of arrogance of pride, but I really do have a blessed understanding about what the Bible teaches on what it takes to be "Born Again".

John 3:5...........
"Jesus answered. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

John 3:7............
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be Born Again".

Now, the "WATER" mentioned in verse 5 is not wet water or liquid. Instead of me giving you information that you may very well reject because it comes from me, I suggest that you do the study of the Scriptures in John 2 and I think that you will see that the word "water" in John 3 is symbolic of the "WORD OF GOD".

John 17:17 confirms that Bible teachings when we read it, it says..............
"Santify them through thy truth; THY WORD is truth".

John 15:3 Jesus says on this thought...........
"Now ye are clean through the WORD which I have spoken unto you".

If you will take the time to do the study you will see over and over in the Scriptures that the Word of God is likened unto water. What does all of this mean?????

It is my opinion, and again, feel free to reject my opinion....the "Born of water" in John 3:5 means that a person must be born again by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures.

Again........thank you for the comment thus allowing me to get out the Word of God.

 

[Major1]

Again, I agree with you. No statue or image is bowed down to in a manner of worship, that is an anti-Catholic myth that won't go away. Veneration is not idolatry. Any dictionary supports this.
Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshiping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it. Iconoclasts cannot or will not make the distinction.
Do Catholics Worship Statues? | Catholic Answers

I am blessed that we can agree and that we can talk in love instead of contention.

Now, would you think that what we are talking about, bowing down to anything.............
would open the door of temptation so that is the eyes of some not as educated and spiritually endowed as you, would then fall into the trap of idol worship?

Consider the directions in 1 Thess. 5:22...........
"Abstain from all appearances of evil".

Every Catholic I know or have ever known, always bows when approaching the statues of Mary, Joseph and Jesus.

However, I have never, ever seen a Protestant believer bow down to his Bible while in prayer or any other time. Believe me when I say to you that if I ever saw that, it would not happen the 2nd time.

 

[kepha31]

I've never seen a Catholic "bow down" to wood, marble or plaster, we are not so STUPID as to think the veneration stops there.

A work of art that inspires does not mean it is an idol. Would a person studying art in university get kicked out of your church?

For God's sake Major1, it's a DEPICTION!!
and you want to call it evil?​

 

[kepha31]

However, I have never, ever seen a Protestant believer bow down to his Bible while in prayer or any other time. Believe me when I say to you that if I ever saw that, it would not happen the 2nd time.

Having spent 30 years in Protestant churches and bible studies, I have seen a large number of Protestant believers pray with a Bible in there hands; I respectfully disagree with you. But we both know it's not Bible worship, and neither is praying in front of a physical reminder of heavenly realities. A crucifix is not an idol, but brings to mind the extent of His love for us.

 

[kepha31]

Praise God! What a blessing to hear testimony.

I have to be very carefull here. I do not want to give you the wrong impression or one of arrogance of pride, but I really do have a blessed understanding about what the Bible teaches on what it takes to be "Born Again".

John 3:5...........
"Jesus answered. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

John 3:7............
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, ye must be Born Again".

Now, the "WATER" mentioned in verse 5 is not wet water or liquid. Instead of me giving you information that you may very well reject because it comes from me, I suggest that you do the study of the Scriptures in John 2 and I think that you will see that the word "water" in John 3 is symbolic of the "WORD OF GOD".

John 17:17 confirms that Bible teachings when we read it, it says..............
"Santify them through thy truth; THY WORD is truth".

John 15:3 Jesus says on this thought...........
"Now ye are clean through the WORD which I have spoken unto you".

If you will take the time to do the study you will see over and over in the Scriptures that the Word of God is likened unto water. What does all of this mean?????

It is my opinion, and again, feel free to reject my opinion....the "Born of water" in John 3:5 means that a person must be born again by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures.

Again........thank you for the comment thus allowing me to get out the Word of God.

If water is a symbol, then so is "spirit", and nowhere in scripture is "spirit" used symbolically.
How did the Apostles baptize by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures when the NT scriptures didn't yet exist?

Not a single Christian on the planet for over 5 centuries referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism, including Luther and Calvin. "born again by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures" is a recent unbiblical invention.

Romans 6:3–4; Colossians 2:12–13; Titus 3:5

 

[Goatee]

Like I have said before, God know what is in the heart of the person praying. Be it standing, kneeling or lying down in front of a statue!!

Major1..... You should not judge by what you 'think' you see!

 

[Major1]

If water is a symbol, then so is "spirit", and nowhere in scripture is "spirit" used symbolically.
How did the Apostles baptize by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures when the NT scriptures didn't yet exist?

Not a single Christian on the planet for over 5 centuries referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism, including Luther and Calvin. "born again by the Holy Spirit using the Scriptures" is a recent unbiblical invention.

Romans 6:3–4; Colossians 2:12–13; Titus 3:5

Now think for a moment. Was the Biblical doctrine we now have of "Saved by Grace" anything other than an unbiblical invention??? That was over 5 centuries ago also wasn't it?

It was Martin Luther in 1550 who placed his 99 Thesis on the door of the Pope. What was it before then????????

You do not have to agree with me my friend. However please do not sit in front of your computer and think to yourself that "I" came up with such a teaching.

Did you look up any of the Scriptures I posted on this thought?????

There are some Christian denominations that believe a person must be baptized in order to be saved (a doctrine called, baptismal regeneration). One text they often cite in support of their doctrine is John 3:5 which I used as well for you..............

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

The fundamental flaw in that argument is what I sated to you in that it is an unproven assumption that “born of water” means baptism. I don’t believe it does.

Please, YOU look this up before making an assumption. In all of Scripture, the term “born of water” occurs exactly once. Besides this verse, there is no other passage we can examine that might shed more light on the meaning of this term. Consequently, we only have the context of this verse to help us understand what Jesus meant by His statement to Nicodemus.

The words “baptize” or “baptism” occur approximately 85 times in Scripture. And even though this ritual is frequently mentioned, nowhere is it called, being “born of water.” If someone wants to associate this term with baptism, the burden should be upon them to do so because Scripture doesn’t make the connection.

John 3:5-6:............

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

I believe the passage is clear but let me paraphrase: “A person must be born physically AND spiritually. That is simply because that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Wouldn't you agree with that comment?

Now, skip forward a little further, Nicodemus is still struggling with understanding the spiritual rebirth. Jesus makes the following statement in John 3:12,..........
“If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”

We see Jesus is again comparing spiritual truths to physical truths. Jesus often explained spiritual truths by comparing them to things we understand. Consider the number of times Jesus said, “The kingdom of heaven is like…” In this passage, Jesus is comparing the rebirth - the spiritual birth - to the physical birth.

“Born of water” referring to the physical birth also agrees nicely with 1 Peter 1:23.......
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

So we are first born of corruptible seed which is the flesh, and then we are born again of incorruptible seed which is the Word of God via the Spirit.

Again, thanks for your comment as it has allowed me the opportunity to reach out through the internet to those who need this kind of Biblical teaching.