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Featured Catholics, what exactly do you believe about Mary?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by melody5697, May 22, 2017.

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  1. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    To cut to the chase: you accuse the healings at Lourdes of being acts of Satan. I am sure they were done by God.

    Any further conversation here is a dead letter.
     
  2. Tangible

    Tangible Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

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    Brother, I'm just asking for an explanation. I am skeptical, I will admit, but willing to entertain any good argument.

    I have asked twice now for answers to two questions. I would really, earnestly, respectfully like to have them answered.
     
  3. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Of course God gets the credit for healing.
     
  4. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus’ brothers are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. The Bible tells us that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). The Bible also tells us that Jesus had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:56).

    In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival while Jesus stays behind. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother are described as praying with the disciples. Galatians 1:19 mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood half-siblings.

    Some Roman Catholics claim that these “brothers” were actually Jesus’ cousins. However, in each instance, the specific Greek word for “brother” is used. While the word can refer to other relatives, its normal and literal meaning is a physical brother. There was a Greek word for “cousin,” and it was not used. Further, if they were Jesus’ cousins, why would they so often be described as being with Mary, Jesus’ mother? There is nothing in the context of His mother and brothers coming to see Him that even hints that they were anyone other than His literal, blood-related, half-brothers.
     
  5. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the Bible says that they at HALF brothers and sisters. Same Mother, different father.

    A second Roman Catholic argument is that Jesus’ brothers and sisters were the children of Joseph from a previous marriage. An entire theory of Joseph's being significantly older than Mary, having been previously married, having multiple children, and then being widowed before marrying Mary is invented without any biblical basis.

    The problem with this is that the Bible does not even hint that Joseph was married or had children before he married Mary. If Joseph had at least six children before he married Mary, why are they not mentioned in Joseph and Mary’s trip to Bethlehem in Luke 2:4-7 or their trip to Egypt Matthew 2:13-15 or their trip back to Nazareth Matthew 2:20-23?
     
  6. Tangible

    Tangible Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

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    Argument from silence.
     
  7. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    I have given you info as to what 'brother' and 'sister' meant in the time of Jesus. The facts are there.
     
  8. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Bible does not even hint that Mary bore any other children either!
     
  9. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Why can't they be children of Joseph from another marriage?

    St James was called the 'Brother of Our Lord'. This is being 'kinsman', for cousins german with the Hebrews were called brothers!

    Brother Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

    1 Peter 5
    12 By Silva′nus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God; stand fast in it. 13 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark. 14 Greet one another with the kiss of love.

    Peace to all of you that are in Christ.


    Is Peter saying above that Silva'nus is his biological brother?

    Is Peter saying above that Mark is his biological son?
     
  10. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    From "US Catholic Faith in Life" web site.................
    Did Jesus have brothers and sisters?

    "All of the four evangelists make some mention of his brothers and sisters. In Mark, a crowd asks of Jesus, “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are his sisters here with us?” (6:3). In Luke, when Jesus is told by a crowd gathered to hear him speak, “Your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you,” Jesus famously rejects them: “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it” (8:19-21). And John writes that after Jesus performed his first miracles in Cana, “he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days” (2:12)."
     
  11. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry my friend, but I must go with what the Bible actually says.

    The view that the brothers and sisters (Greek: adelphos, adelphe) mentioned in these passages are actual brothers and sisters confirms Paul’s references to James as “the Lord’s brother” in Galatians 1:19 and to “The Lord’s brothers” in 1 Corinthians 9:5. If they were cousins rather than brothers, Paul would have used the Greek word for “cousins” (anepsioi; see Colossians 4:10).
     
  12. Tangible

    Tangible Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

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    It has been shown numerous times that the words brother and sister have a wide semantic range.
     
  13. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Still dose not say that Mary bore any other children.
     
  14. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    1 Peter 5
    12 By Silva′nus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God; stand fast in it. 13 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark. 14 Greet one another with the kiss of love.

    Peace to all of you that are in Christ.


    Is Peter saying above that Silva'nus is his biological brother?

    Is Peter saying above that Mark is his biological son?
     
  15. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Brother Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

    You have to put your yourself in the 1st century and try and understand what it was meant to be called brother or sister. Link above shows what it meant in that era.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Only in the sense that all the heavenly host pray the Father for all of humanity. That, at least, is the Biblical perspective.
     
  17. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Mary can intercede for us. Just like she did at Cana
     
  18. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    If you want to believe that, I'm sure you will. And it's a charming and comforting bit of folklore, that's understood.

    We all have good feelings about our mothers, and so we project all sorts of things in our imaginations when it comes to replacement figures.
     
  20. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    I love you my brother but doing that is actually not necessary.

    I am a literal Bible believer. When I read the words, "Brother or Sister, or Uncle or Aunt", I know what that means.

    It seems to me that those Catholics who deny Jesus had half brothers and sisters as recorded in the Scriptures are doing so for only one reason and that is to uphold the Catholic teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Personally I can not think of any other reason than that one.

    However my brother, to claim Mary was a perpetual virgin even after Christ was born is to deny the words of the Apostle Matthew, who wrote in Matthew 1:24-25.......
    “Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS”.

    “Knew” was a modest way of describing sexual relations in ancient times. For example, Adam knew Eve, and she conceived Cain, and he knew her again, and she bore Seth in Gen. 4:1 & 25.

    In Gen. 4:17........."Cain knew his wife, and she bore Enoch.

    If Joseph never knew Mary at all, the phrase “till she had brought forth her firstborn Son” is pointless. Obviously, Joseph did not sleep with Mary until after she gave birth to Jesus, fulfilling both parts of the prophecy ...... virginal conception and virgin birth, as Isaiah 7:14 states.......
    “the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son,”.

    But this means Joseph did know her after she gave birth to Jesus, so she was no longer a virgin.

    In fact, sex within marriage is not a sin but is a creation ordinance within marriage that existed prior to sin and the Curse. Jesus quoted Genesis 2:24 in Matthew 19:5–6, reiterating “the two shall be one flesh.”
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
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