*Catholics Please Respond* Sacraments

anna ~ grace

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Hey, guys. So, coming from a Christian tradition where personal prayer and Bible study was the focal point of our lives as Christians, I need some help understanding what the Sacraments are, how they help us, and why they matter.

I'm trying to understand that better. I have zero access to any sacraments right now, but when I do, I want to understand why this matters, and what is going on, and how it matters. I'm coming from a Baptist background where nothing really helps us apart from grace through faith, and where everything is a symbol. Wonderful people, but not helping me understand this new world.

Thank you, and thank you for helping me understand this better.
 

Stabat Mater dolorosa

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I can post a thorough theological take on this later if youre interested? Im on my cellphone so I try to avoid writing to much as its true pain to be honest.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I can post a thorough theological take on this later if youre interested? Im on my cellphone so I try to avoid writing to much as its true pain to be honest.
That would be helpful, Stabat, thank you. :purpleheart:
 
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Bob Crowley

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I'd suggest you look at this link on the Catechism of the Catholic Church. There's a bit of reading involved, but this is the official written summary of Catholic Belief.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacraments of the Christian initiation

It states there are seven sacraments, whereas most Protestant Churches only have two - Baptism and The Lord's Supper.

Dictionary.com defined them as follows (link refers - the definition of sacrament)

"Ecclesiastical. a visible sign of an inward grace, especially one of the solemn Christian rites considered to have been instituted by Jesus Christ to symbolize or confer grace: the sacraments of the Protestant churches are baptism and the Lord's Supper; the sacraments of the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches are baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist, matrimony, penance, holy orders, and extreme unction."

The definition of a sacrament then is a "visible sign of an inward grace".

As a Baptist, I'd assume you accept Baptism as a sacrament as a visible sign of an invisible grace. When an adult is baptised by immersion in your tradition, you would surely accept that they are being sealed by the Holy Spirit. But you don't see the Spirit in action - no dove comes down out of heaven as it did in the unique case of Christ at the hands of John the Baptist. You accept an invisible grace has occurred, but the process of Baptism is the visible sign.

In a similar way it could be argued that the other sacraments are also invisible signs of an invisible grace - again I've lifted someone's else's work to avoid reinventing the wheel, although I've simplified and modified the arrangement a bit, adding a few terms that might make some terms a bit more familiar to Protestants.

Living Sacramentally: Showing Visible Signs of Invisible Grace - SMM Sisters

1. Baptism - evokes the loving care with which a parent cradles and bathes a newborn baby.
2. Reconciliation / Penance / Confession - calls us to right relationship with others through the power of forgiveness.
3. Communion / Eucharist / Lord's Supper - reflects the need we have to nourish and sustain one another at the table.
4. Confirmation - affirms one’s readiness to go on to the next level.
5. Marriage - celebrates our call to lovingly create family and community.
6. Holy Orders - celebrates our reverence of the call to help bring God to others. (eg. when a priest or nun is ordained - and if the ordainment of a Baptist pastor is a purely human affair, whence comes his claim to speak on God's behalf to others? Is God speaking through him, or are his words purely human with no spiritual input whatsoever?)
7. Anointing of the Sick (formerly Extreme Unction) - reflects our empathy with those who are struggling with ill health - Christ and the Apostles went a step further, and healed them by the power of God (but even then nobody would have seen how God did it - the laying on of hands was simply the visible sign of an invisible grace).

The key definition is "a visible sign of an invisible grace". That's what you need to take on board as the starting point.

Whether the participants take it seriously or not is another thing altogether - any number of people walk away from the church later - but in the long run they'll answer for it. God takes the sacraments seriously even if we don't, and He'll hold us accountable.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Hey, guys. So, coming from a Christian tradition where personal prayer and Bible study was the focal point of our lives as Christians, I need some help understanding what the Sacraments are, how they help us, and why they matter.

I'm trying to understand that better. I have zero access to any sacraments right now, but when I do, I want to understand why this matters, and what is going on, and how it matters. I'm coming from a Baptist background where nothing really helps us apart from grace through faith, and where everything is a symbol. Wonderful people, but not helping me understand this new world.

Thank you, and thank you for helping me understand this better.
Grace through faith is great. Sacraments are symbols, but they are also realities of what they symbolize. Thus baptism is a real washing of sin, a real drowning of the old self, a real coming up out of the water to receive the first breath of new life in Christ. The Eucharist is real food for the soul, a real taking in of the body of Christ to keep the soul nourished. Matrimony is a real bonding of two people into one. All this by the power of Christ, which is the grace of Christ. The Baptist view is only partial.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Well, theologically we`re often speaking of communication with God as a two-ways communication. On the one hand its what we`re doing, what we are offering etc. This is called Sacrificium and it consists of adoration, praise, hymns psalms etc. This is man/ woman reaching out towards God. Sursum Corda, we Lift up your hearts to the Lord our God. We do something in order to come closer to God.

The other kind of communication with the Lord is called Sacramentum, Sacramentum is the other part of the two-way communication. Its Gods way of reaching out to us. He does so in many ways and some less known than others, but the most common ones is found in the mass and the in the sacraments in particular.

There are a lot to this. In many of the sacraments God works with/ transform something that people bring to him. The work of our hands becomes sacred by the work of God.
Take Communion for instans. Its wine and bread which has grown on the field in the shape of grapes and wheat, but has been worked by man to become wine and bread.
We then bring this "offering" to Gods altar where he sanctify it and transform it into the body and blood of Christ our Lord through the epiclesis. -- Man does something - God sanctifies it and it becomes a tool, a sign, a symbol and a bridge of communication between creator and creation.

In the confession it works the same way. The priest has to be there to listen for it to be a sacrament, but God makes use of the priest and sanctifies it by giving his absolution through the priest.

Baptism - We bring the water and the priest a mere human being performs the ritual and God makes it something truely trancendental by the works of The Holy Spirit.

This goes on and on in the sacraments. The whole mass is actually centered around this formula too. Form below:

the Penitential Rite = Sacramentum
Kyrie Eleison = Sacramentum
Gloria = Sacrificium
Prayers and Scripture reading = Sacramentum
Credo = Sacrificium
Offeratory prayers = Sacramentum
Preface (Vere dignum in iustum est...) = Sacrificium
Sanctus = Sacrificium
Pater Noster = (three first parts of it is Sacrificium, the rest is Sacramentum)
Agnus Dei = Sacramentum
The Mass is ended = Sacramentum


Its interesting to see how its a two fold isnt it? Could it reflect the two natures of Chirst in some ways? The church is both divine aswell as human. Sacrificium and Sacramentum...
Christ both paints God in front of our eyes as he is indeed God himself aswell as representing the true and sinfree man in front of God the Father.
The two roles of Christ is very interesting and fascinating.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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The sacraments are outwards signs and symbols in which helps us in our Christian life. Unlike the radical reformationists (Anabaptists) we believe Christ saw our need of not only spiritual but also physical help on our road to salvation.
As we`re both body and soul we need physical as well as spiritual worship. This is to say we both pray to God as well as kneel in front of him.

The more physical aspect of the faith suffered greatly as a result of the reformation, some places more than others. Anabaptists and Reformed Christianity where almost unrecognisable where Lutheranism landed something like mid-in-between. The English reformation had political motives and was very catholic for some time.
 
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Stabat Mater dolorosa

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Thank you, Stabat! So, it's like a two way street of grace and offering.

You may say that. We're saved through grace alone, but yet called to save others through evangelizing the crucified and ressurrected Christ to all the nations.
Revieve the grace and give it to the next guy or gal.
 
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