[Catholics Only] Vatican documents detail suspicious investments at Secretariat of State

[Gnarwhal]

A confidential report from the Vatican’s anti-corruption authority shows that the Secretariat of State has used about $725 million, most of which came from the Pope’s charity fund, in off-books operations.

Italian weekly L’Espresso published a report on October 20 revealing information from three confidential Vatican documents, one of which is a report from the Pope’s anti-corruption authority, called the Office of the General Auditor, claiming to have found serious financial crimes and corruption within the Secretariat of State.​

Vatican documents detail suspicious investments at Secretariat of State | Catholic Herald

 

[Markie Boy]

Does not make one want to put more in the collection plate.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Does not make one want to put more in the collection plate.

I'm predicting Peter's Pence doesn't break any records this year.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Does not make one want to put more in the collection plate.

I'm predicting Peter's Pence doesn't break any records this year.

Was thinking the same thing. When the diocese makes it's next annual appeal I think more than a few people might not be so quick to pull out their checkbooks.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Was thinking the same thing. When the diocese makes it's next annual appeal I think more than a few people might not be so quick to pull out their checkbooks.

Diocesan annual appeals may be good or not so good depending on the diocese. Depending on what the money is used for and depending on the level of orthodoxy of the bishop. Peter's Pence I just can't see right now.

But we do have a duty to support the Church. We have latitude in what ministries we actually support. Maybe we help pay the phone bill for the parish or gas gift cards for the pastor so we are not contributing to the cash collection of a parish but we see the parish actually keeps running. You get the idea. We should not become miserly. Instead, because there will likely be good elements that go short in the coming dissatisfaction, we probably have to do more.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Diocesan annual appeals may be good or not so good depending on the diocese. Depending on what the money is used for and depending on the level of orthodoxy of the bishop. Peter's Pence I just can't see right now.

But we do have a duty to support the Church. We have latitude in what ministries we actually support. Maybe we help pay the phone bill for the parish or gas gift cards for the pastor so we are not contributing to the cash collection of a parish but we see the parish actually keeps running. You get the idea. We should not become miserly. Instead, because there will likely be good elements that go short in the coming dissatisfaction, we probably have to do more.

Yeah I like to give to the regular collection and my parish's maintenance fund. Those are the things I have the most confidence in at this point.

Re: orthodoxy of our bishops, I'm still trying to figure that out about Bishop Soto. He's passionate about the pro-life movement, and he seems reasonably favorable towards tradition (he made some favorable comments about the proposed restoration of my parish) but for some reason I still kind of wonder how committed he is to more Traditional Catholics.

 

[Markie Boy]

Our area is suppressing moving tabernacles back front and center from the closet or sides, and has keep traditional mass out of the entire dioceses. And they wonder why they have almost zero vocations.

But many people keep giving. It's like there is a reason Jesus kept referring to us as "sheep".

 

[AvilaSurfer]

We will continue to tithe.

 

[Michie]

Vatican cash crisis after sex scandals

Vatican cash crisis: Holy See loses €44million in a year as donations plummet | Daily Mail Online

 

[anna ~ grace]

We will continue to tithe.

Yep. My husband always reminds me of the widow's mite. Even if we go to a contemporary, walls are black, no natural light, way too loud strobe fest. He makes us give something.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Vatican cash crisis after sex scandals

Vatican cash crisis: Holy See loses €44million in a year as donations plummet | Daily Mail Online

Not a big surprise. Not even a tiny bit.

But then when the Episcopalians and so many other old-line denominations began to lose their religion and see people and their money leave, did they care? Most of them doubled down, flank speed in doing exactly what caused their problem in the first place. Will the Vatican wake up? Will we be able to pick up the pieces once they do? The gates of hell shall not prevail, but how they don't prevail is unclear.

We have a duty to support the Church. Not in any particular way, so we can chose to support this and not that. When the time comes, we will have to dig deep to pull the Church out of economic ruin.

 

[Markie Boy]

The Didache says to let your alms grow damp in your hands before deciding where to give. Wise advice for our times.

 

[Markie Boy]

Not a big surprise. Not even a tiny bit.

But then when the Episcopalians and so many other old-line denominations began to lose their religion and see people and their money leave, did they care? Most of them doubled down, flank speed in doing exactly what caused their problem in the first place. Will the Vatican wake up? Will we be able to pick up the pieces once they do? The gates of hell shall not prevail, but how they don't prevail is unclear.

We have a duty to support the Church. Not in any particular way, so we can chose to support this and not that. When the time comes, we will have to dig deep to pull the Church out of economic ruin.

Do we even really know what "the gates of Hell will not prevail" means? It could have many meanings.

 

[Michie]

Do we even really know what "the gates of Hell will not prevail" means? It could have many meanings.

What are the alternate theories on what it could possibly mean?

 

[chevyontheriver]

Do we even really know what "the gates of Hell will not prevail" means? It could have many meanings.

I have heard it referred to as the 'jaws' of 'death' as a literal translation. A nasty threatening beast who may not prevail in the end but may do considerable damage to us. We win, but barely.

Others say that gates are stationary things and it means that we shall prevail in our attack against the gates of hell.

 

[Michie]

What do you all think of this?
The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail

 

[Markie Boy]

What do you all think of this?
The Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail

Interesting article, but draws the same conclusion I do - we don't have a super clear target of what that line means. If we go back to the original Greek, build My ekklesia (church) refers to a people, not an institution.

Hell will not prevail against those dedicated people, but we are watching the institution crumble at a rapid pace. But there will be a remnant left of dedicated people and clergy. The gates will not prevail against them.

Just thinking out loud on this.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Interesting article, but draws the same conclusion I do - we don't have a super clear target of what that line means. If we go back to the original Greek, build My ekklesia (church) refers to a people, not an institution.

Hell will not prevail against those dedicated people, but we are watching the institution crumble at a rapid pace. But there will be a remnant left of dedicated people and clergy. The gates will not prevail against them.

Just thinking out loud on this.

It's that smaller Church papa Benedict spoke of being created as we speak. And the purification will be painful for those who persevere. A sword shall pierce even our souls. I think the Orthodox will go through it as well in persecution in the Near East as well as the self inflicted woulds of schism pulsating through their midst now. Maybe we will be able to begin to see that we believers are actually brothers and sisters in a while. I think we should begin to look for the remnants to coalesce together some time soon.

 

[anna ~ grace]

It's that smaller Church papa Benedict spoke of being created as we speak. And the purification will be painful for those who persevere. A sword shall pierce even our souls. I think the Orthodox will go through it as well in persecution in the Near East as well as the self inflicted woulds of schism pulsating through their midst now. Maybe we will be able to begin to see that we believers are actually brothers and sisters in a while. I think we should begin to look for the remnants to coalesce together some time soon.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[Markie Boy]

It's that smaller Church papa Benedict spoke of being created as we speak. And the purification will be painful for those who persevere. A sword shall pierce even our souls. I think the Orthodox will go through it as well in persecution in the Near East as well as the self inflicted woulds of schism pulsating through their midst now. Maybe we will be able to begin to see that we believers are actually brothers and sisters in a while. I think we should begin to look for the remnants to coalesce together some time soon.

Agree for sure! It's this trial that will bring together those truly dedicated. I started reading the book The Benedict Option, which really applies to our times.

A really unique observation is that conservative and orthodox people in different denominations actually have more in common with each other, than they do with many people in their own church. I know in the RCC I find very little fellowship and people that agree with me, as it's over-run with liberalism. But I know a really conservative and orthodox Lutheran and Baptist, and we have much in common.

The falling of the church will cause us to shake a lot of the stuff that's not important.