Catholics: How important is studying Church history to being a Christian?

[kepha31]

G.K. Chesterton nailed it when he said, “The difficulty of explaining ‘why I am a Catholic’ is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true.”

hundreds of conversion stories

 

[bbbbbbb]

G.K. Chesterton nailed it when he said, “The difficulty of explaining ‘why I am a Catholic’ is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true.”

hundreds of conversion stories

That is pretty much what my Turkish friends have told me about Islam.

 

[thecolorsblend]

That is pretty much what my Turkish friends have told me about Islam.

So the threat of being killed for apostasy has no bearing on their decision? Good on them.

 

[prodromos]

That is pretty much what my Turkish friends have told me about Islam.

Except their reasons don't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Except their reasons don't stand up to scrutiny.

It depends upon whose form of scrutiny is used. They are quite convinced that my reasons for my Christian faith are utterly senseless. After all, how can God have a son if God is a spirit?

 

[bbbbbbb]

So the threat of being killed for apostasy has no bearing on their decision? Good on them.

Interestingly, they have a rather incisive knowledge concerning Christian brutality, such as the Inquisition and other forms of Christian self-genocide. It becomes, I am afraid, more or less a case of a pot calling a kettle black.

 

[prodromos]

It depends upon whose form of scrutiny is used. They are quite convinced that my reasons for my Christian faith are utterly senseless. After all, how can God have a son if God is a spirit?

I'm talking about things like their claim that there is no variation in the Koran when in fact one of their Sultans had ordered every other variation of manuscript be destroyed.

 

[thecolorsblend]

It depends upon whose form of scrutiny is used. They are quite convinced that my reasons for my Christian faith are utterly senseless. After all, how can God have a son if God is a spirit?

This is an attitude I've found common among Moslems. Some of them, at least, are a little disconcerted by Christians. They regard us as polytheists. The concept of the Holy Trinity is virtually impossible for them to wrap their heads around.

And in particular Our Lord is a challenging idea for them. "How can one man's death redeem somebody?" seems to be the common refrain.

To be honest, I have very little experience evangelizing Moslems. Geographically, the closest I've come is sharing the faith with a Hindu guy from India (Kashmir maybe?) and he was extremely confused by Christian ethics.

Interestingly, they have a rather incisive knowledge concerning Christian brutality, such as the Inquisition

Which one?

and other forms of Christian self-genocide.

???

It becomes, I am afraid, more or less a case of a pot calling a kettle black.

I'll take our shortcomings over theirs any day and twice on Sunday.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I'm talking about things like their claim that there is no variation in the Koran when in fact one of their Sultans had ordered every other variation of manuscript be destroyed.

Again, it comes down to understanding their mindset regarding scrutiny. They have a consistent canon when it comes to the Koran, unlike Christians who still haven't come to any agreement, leaving the Bible highly suspect as to its reliability, from their perspective. Their canon of the Qu'ran is also immutable and it is forbidden to have any other form than Arabic, unlike Christians who are constantly coming up with translations of the Bible, none of which are at all valid, from their perspective.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Again, it comes down to understanding their mindset regarding scrutiny. They have a consistent canon when it comes to the Koran, unlike Christians who still haven't come to any agreement, leaving the Bible highly suspect as to its reliability, from their perspective. Their canon of the Qu'ran is also immutable and it is forbidden to have any other form than Arabic, unlike Christians who are constantly coming up with translations of the Bible, none of which are at all valid, from their perspective.

Good points.

If only there was a guiding authority who could steer the Church clear of all those things...

 

[bbbbbbb]

This is an attitude I've found common among Moslems. Some of them, at least, are a little disconcerted by Christians. They regard us as polytheists. The concept of the Holy Trinity is virtually impossible for them to wrap their heads around.

And in particular Our Lord is a challenging idea for them. "How can one man's death redeem somebody?" seems to be the common refrain.

To be honest, I have very little experience evangelizing Moslems. Geographically, the closest I've come is sharing the faith with a Hindu guy from India (Kashmir maybe?) and he was extremely confused by Christian ethics.

Which one?

???

I'll take our shortcomings over theirs any day and twice on Sunday.

Yes, the Qu'ran is quite explicit that there is only one God and that Christians are guilty of polygamy of the grossest nature.

Most Hindus I have encountered are highly educated and westernized and are Hindu in name and culture only. Their objections to Christianity are the typical modern, secular objections.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Good points.

If only there was a guiding authority who could steer the Church clear of all those things...

Fortunately, that is not at all any issue for them. My Turkish friends have a sure and reliable guide in their Sunni leader. My Iranian friends, however, find their sure and reliable guide in their Shi'ite leader. If I suggest to one or the other that there is more than one form of Islam, they are horrified at the thought. There is not the slightest doubt in their mind that their is the One, True Faith granted by Allah to mankind and that all others which make the same claim are guilty of the grossest apostasy and deserve death.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Fortunately, that is not at all any issue for them. My Turkish friends have a sure and reliable guide in their Sunni leader. My Iranian friends, however, find their sure and reliable guide in their Shi'ite leader. If I suggest to one or the other that there is more than one form of Islam, they are horrified at the thought. There is not the slightest doubt in their mind that their is the One, True Faith granted by Allah to mankind and that all others which make the same claim are guilty of the grossest apostasy and deserve death.

I found your comments to be both witty and insightful. Thank you for sharing.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I found your comments to be both witty and insightful. Thank you for sharing.

There is. He is called the Holy Spirit and His Word is called the Bible.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I quite agree with you. Most church members choose their denominations based on other factors than the Bible. For example, I know many Unitarians who are members of that particular denomination for social reasons only. Theology played no part in their decision, nor was it encouraged at all.

Those who choose to affiliate with Traditional denominations such as the Catholic Church seem to be primarily persuaded by historical factors such as the writings of the ECFs.

I haven't found that exactly to be the case. I know of disgruntled Episcopalians who joined because their communion went over the cliff. I've met businessmen who joined because they admire the Church's principled stand against abortion... even though allowing them in Catholic hospitals would earn them a fortune. Still others were atheists who were persuaded by the intellectual beauty of the Church.

I don't know how common my experience is but it's hardly the norm among converts.

EDIT- I would add that I came from the Southern Baptists. So it's not like I wasn't familiar with a limited, stripped down version of Christianity from the evangelical world.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I haven't found that exactly to be the case. I know of disgruntled Episcopalians who joined because their communion went over the cliff. I've met businessmen who joined because they admire the Church's principled stand against abortion... even though allowing them in Catholic hospitals would earn them a fortune. Still others were atheists who were persuaded by the intellectual beauty of the Church.

I don't know how common my experience is but it's hardly the norm among converts.

EDIT- I would add that I came from the Southern Baptists. So it's not like I wasn't familiar with a limited, stripped down version of Christianity from the evangelical world.

Again, I agree with you. The basic point is that there are often multiple factors at work in one's choice of a denomination and for many the Bible plays no role whatsoever or, at best, a minor role.

 

[Monk Brendan]

How important is it to study the Church founders and do you think one can be a proper Catholic (by extension, a proper Christian) if they do not nor have desire to study Church founders and the development of doctrines from a Roman Catholic standpoint?

Okay, I feel it is very important to understand Church History. However, I am also sure that the most uneducated person on earth can come to a saving knowledge of Jesus.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Okay, I feel it is very important to understand Church History. However, I am also sure that the most uneducated person on earth can come to a saving knowledge of Jesus.

I think this is a fair and balanced view.

 

[kepha31]

How important is it for Protestants to ignore or re-write early church history to be Protestants?

 

[Jeepneytravel]

If one is to study the history of the Roman "Catholic" religious organization, one would see it was founded by the Roman emperor Constantine circa 323 AD...one would learn that this entity was founded on pagan tradition from ancient Babylon...One would also learn of its barbaric and despotic past, of the institution and its leaders (popes)...also one would learn how the popes took it upon themselves to change God's times and laws as prophesied by Daniel in Chapter 7....study also the prophesies of Jesus in Revelation 17 and 18, how this religious institution is and end times beast power, and how God says "come out of her my people...