Catholics: Do Mary and the saints in heaven have free will?

Do Mary and the saints in heaven have free will?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 80.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

CrystalDragon

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I would hope that they have free will. If they do, then we'll have free will. If they don't, then that means that souls in heaven lose their free will. That would be hell to many because it would take away who they are as a person in exchange for some Bog-collective-hive-mind.

Eternal torture or Borg-collective-hive-mind isn't exactly the best possible afterlife outcomes. In fact, two of the most terrifying.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I would hope that they have free will. If they do, then we'll have free will. If they don't, then that means that souls in heaven lose their free will. That would be hell to many because it would take away who they are as a person in exchange for some Bog-collective-hive-mind.

Eternal torture or Borg-collective-hive-mind isn't exactly the best possible afterlife outcomes. In fact, two of the most terrifying.

Thanks. So, if they can, and do, exercise their free will, which is not the divine will of God, can they reject prayers addressed to them despite the fact that God would otherwise will to answer the prayers?
 
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CrystalDragon

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Thanks. So, if they can, and do, exercise their free will, which is not the divine will of God, can they reject prayers addressed to them despite the fact that God would otherwise will to answer the prayers?


I think they technically could if they wanted to—after all, not all prayers are answered—but given that a good majority of people on Earth would answer prayers if they had the ability to, I'd assume Mary and the saints would likely want to. I know that if I had the ability to answer healing prayers, I would.
 
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Albion

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I presume that they have free will since we know the angels were created with free will...and some rebelled against God. But being in heaven, I also presume that the saints want always to do God's will, that it would be almost automatic with them.

As for answering the prayers of mortals, I would guess either that they do not hear them or that -- if they do -- God is also aware of them and does not refuse them simply because these people made a mistake in not going straight to him.
 
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CrystalDragon

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I presume that they have free will since we know the angels were created with free will...and some rebelled against God. But being in heaven, I also presume that the saints want always to do God's will, that it would be almost automatic with them.

As for answering the prayers of mortals, I would guess either that they do not hear them or that -- if they do -- God is also aware of them and does not refuse them simply because these people made a mistake in not going straight to him.


Question, where does it say some angels rebelled against God? Aside from the symbolic supposedly future vision of Revelation, since that was added to the Bible last and reluctantly.
 
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Albion

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Question, where does it say some angels rebelled against God? Aside from the symbolic supposedly future vision of Revelation, since that was added to the Bible last and reluctantly.
I'm just trusting the Bible, in all of its books, to be correct. I based my answer on that. We're all guessing when it comes to answering the question of the OP anyway. :)
 
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CrystalDragon

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Why was GOD reluctant to BREATHE REVELATION and GUARD it as HIS WORD ?


It took many centuries for people to decide what books should go in the Bible. The Book of Enoch was mentioned in the Bible but is not part of the Bible itself. We only have four Gospels instead of 60 because a bishop in 180 AD thought we should have four Gospels to match the four cardinal directions, four-legged animals, for corners, etc. Men choosing what books to go into the Bible was a long process, and the people who worked to compile it weren't sure if Revelation was authentic.
 
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CrystalDragon

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I'm just trusting the Bible, in all of its books, to be correct. I based my answer on that. We're all guessing when it comes to answering the question of the OP anyway. :)


Like I said in a post above, it took many centuries for people to decide what books should be in the Bible, and Revelation was almost considered not authentic. The Book of Enoch was mentioned in the Bible but isn't part of the Bible. We only have four Gospels because a bishop in 180 likes the number 4.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I TRUST GOD and GOD'S WORD, when GOD says HE HIMSELF BREATHED HIS WORD and GUARDS IT.

I find those who think/thought throughout history that man was responsible also disagree with much of GOD'S WORD, (even if I'm wrong about trusting that GOD BREATHED and GUARDED HIS WORD HIMSELF) ....

It took many centuries for people to decide what books should go in the Bible. ...
 
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Albion

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Like I said in a post above, it took many centuries for people to decide what books should be in the Bible, and Revelation was almost considered not authentic.
That's largely true, certainly in the case of Revelation. But Revelation WAS included in the Bible, so I made reference to it when answering the question put to us.
 
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bbbbbbb

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That's largely true, certainly in the case of Revelation. But Revelation WAS included in the Bible, so I made reference to it when answering the question put to us.

I do find it curious that the Catholics hold such a low view of scripture when, during the Mass, the priest lifts up a large Bible and proclaims, "This is the Word of the Lord,
This is the Word of the Lord,This is the Word of the Lord,"

However, back to the OP, it seems that our Catholic friends strongly reject the idea that the people in heaven are incapable of sin, but have free wills to reject God's will.
 
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CrystalDragon

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I do find it curious that the Catholics hold such a low view of scripture when, during the Mass, the priest lifts up a large Bible and proclaims, "This is the Word of the Lord,
This is the Word of the Lord,This is the Word of the Lord,"

However, back to the OP, it seems that our Catholic friends strongly reject the idea that the people in heaven are incapable of sin, but have free wills to reject God's will.

I've gone to Catholic Mass my whole life and our priests never did that.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I've gone to Catholic Mass my whole life and our priests never did that.

Interesting. Although I can count on one hand the Catholic masses I have attended, that particular act really surprised and impressed me. There seems to be some diversity in the Catholic Church. In our area the homilies almost uniformly are harangues about giving more money to the Church, although there have been exceptions. This I hear from Catholic friends who come to visit from other areas of the country.

Nevertheless, I do find it strange that the Bible is held in such low esteem by many Catholics.
 
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Phil 1:21

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In our area the homilies almost uniformly are harangues about giving more money to the Church, although there have been exceptions.

There was a lot of that in the church where I grew up, but it seemed to depend on the individual priest. We had one who was notorious for it, and another who knew that the purpose of the sermon was to teach about the Word of God (even if it was for less than 10 minutes). Like any institution, there's both good and bad in the RCC.
 
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bbbbbbb

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There was a lot of that in the church where I grew up, but it seemed to depend on the individual priest. We had one who was notorious for it, and another who knew that the purpose of the sermon was to teach about the Word of God (even if it was for less than 10 minutes). Like any institution, there's both good and bad in the RCC.

Yes, that is quite true. I do not know any institution that is exempt, although I always would like to think my own church is better (which, in reality, it is not).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Like any institution, there's both good and bad in the RCC.
If they would throw out the bad,
and keep the good,
there would be no deception, eh?
(any institution)

That is what the difference is in the meeting of people following JESUS - we do not allow the bad (teachings/ doctrines/ sins/ unrepentant sinners)
to remain -
we are refreshed daily, throwing out the bad, keeping it out,
and
rejoicing in peace and joy of GOD'S HOLINESS and RIGHTEOUSNESS
as HIS WORD says.
When a vessel takes in repugnant bacteria, and is not washed out, it gets filthier and filtheir.
It needs to be washed daily to be clean at all. Every day.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Interesting. Although I can count on one hand the Catholic masses I have attended, that particular act really surprised and impressed me. There seems to be some diversity in the Catholic Church. In our area the homilies almost uniformly are harangues about giving more money to the Church, although there have been exceptions. This I hear from Catholic friends who come to visit from other areas of the country.

That's kind of funny, in our church we have the collection tin come around but not too many of the homilies involve giving money to the church or anything like that. And the closest thing we have in my church to saying "This is the Word of God" is when a few of our faith cornerstones are stated and the priest says "This is our faith, this is the faith of the church" (we also sometimes say it in song form).

Nevertheless, I do find it strange that the Bible is held in such low esteem by many Catholics.

I wouldn't say "in low esteem", just that while some denominations only rely on Scripture, Catholics follow Scripture and church tradition—if I'm being honest though I don't know why. I do find it disheartening that most Christians seem to not read the Bible in general.[/quote][/QUOTE]
 
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