Catholicism and Lutheranism

[Religious Crisis]

What are the major differences?

 

[Miss Shelby]

What are the major differences?

The Lutheran Church teaches 2 Sacraments--Holy Baptism and True Presence during Communion. (The Sacrament of the Altar)

The Lutheran Church does not teach veneration of Saints.

Those are two major differences. Were you thinking of anything specific?

Michelle

 

[VOW]

To MissShelby:

The Lutheran church often names their individual churches after saints. The church even has its own saints, if I remember correctly. In a Lutheran church in Nuremburg, St Siebald is enshrined there.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Miss Shelby]

The Lutheran church often names their individual churches after saints. The church even has its own saints, if I remember correctly. In a Lutheran church in Nuremburg, St Siebald is enshrined there.


That's true, VOW. Sorry. What I originally wanted to say was that the Lutheran Church doesn't teach praying through Saints, but I chose the word veneration instead.

Michelle

 

[filosofer]

Major difference revolves around imputed righteousness (L) and infused righteousness (RC).

 

[Miss Shelby]

I'm no expert, RC, but here are some links you can try.


http://www.elca.org/



http://www.lcms.org/


Michelle

 

[filosofer]

Also, consider

www.wels.org

If you want to explore all aspects of Lutheranism and additional links, consider

www.lutherans.net

 

[Wolseley]

The major difference is the final authoritative rule of faith and doctrine. For Lutherans, it's the Protestant Bible and Luther's various writings, for Catholics it's Scripture and Apostolic Tradition as defined by the Magesterium of the Church.

 

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by filosofer
Major difference revolves around imputed righteousness (L) and infused righteousness (RC).

Imputed is where man isn't really righteous, but God sees him as righteous because he is blinded by Jesus, right?

(Isn't funny how some people make God in their own image? What to say then of those who have a blind God?)

 

[filosofer]

...but God sees him as righteous because he is blinded by Jesus, right?

No, not right. In fact, according to Genesis 15:6, Romans 4, Galatians 3, etc. God "reckons the righteousness" or "considers that righteousness as credited to the person's account." It is an "alien" righteousness which is given by God. See in particular Philippians 3:8.

For Lutherans, it's the Protestant Bible and Luther's various writings,

No, not correct. The Book of Concord (1580) contains the public documents that are considered the confession of the Church:
Three Ecumenical Creeds
Augsburg Confession (1530)
Apology of the Augsburg Confession (1531)
Luther's Small Catechism (1529)
Luther's Large Catechism (1528)
Smalcald Articles (1537) [two parts]
Formula of Concord (1577) [two parts]

The two Catechisms and the Smalcald Articles are the only ones written by Luther.

I guess Lutherans are as much misunderstood as Roman Catholics.

 

[Religious Crisis]

So, is one better then the other?

 

[VOW]

To Crisis:

That's ENTIRELY up to you.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[Religious Crisis]

But lets say that I chose Lutheranism will I go to hell when I die?

 

[filosofer]

Obviously, I am biased...

But I have studied the issue extensively (professionally and personally) and have dialogued with many on both sides.

I think the Lutheran confessional approach best reflects the Biblical faith. Contrary to what you might read (here or elsewhere) by Roman Catholics, Lutherans have a very good grasp of history and the Church as the teaching authority.

Personally, I find several important points:

- the Gospel emphasis of the Lutheran confessional movement is unmatched

- the Law-Gospel understanding reflects well Biblical theology

- the certainty of salvation is crucial

- the giftedness of receiving Christ's righteousness rather than an effort to get it

- liturgical continuity and adaption (although this is true in RCC to some extent)

------

Another difference is that the RCC accepts/teaches the "continuing revelation" of hidden truths in the apostolic tradition. This was a major source of division in the Reformation era.

Anyway, I've gone longer than I expected. If you have more questions, feel free to ask - or you can PM or email me.

 

[filosofer]

Originally posted by Religious Crisis
But lets say that I chose Lutheranism will I go to hell when I die?

Absolutely NOT!!

Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ!

 

[Religious Crisis]

Ok, thanks for all the in sight.

 

[Dave Ulchers]

Originally posted by filosofer
See in particular Philippians 3:8.

"More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ"

Er.... But what about 1st John, where it says "let no one decieve you -- a person is righteous if he acts righteously." Doesn't that undermine the Lutheran notion of "imputed" righteousness, since the person isn't actually righteous?

 

[Wolseley]

But lets say that I chose Lutheranism will I go to hell when I die?

No, but you'll have to spend eternity locked in a room with Luther.

It's up to you to decide which fate would be worse.....

 

[filosofer]

Er.... But what about 1st John, where it says "let no one decieve you -- a person is righteous if he acts righteously." Doesn't that undermine the Lutheran notion of "imputed" righteousness, since the person isn't actually righteous?

No, that actually highlights the difference between RCC (and in practice, most Protestants) and Lutherans. Lutherans never deny the living out of the faith (as they have sometimes been falsely accused of). Rather, the question is: what causes/initiates what?

God by his grace creates faith (Eph. 2:4-5, etc.) - this is entirely God's work (Eph. 2:8-9). The result of saving faith is to live out that new life (Gal. 2:20; Eph. 2:10). However, the (official) RCC poistion is that God gives grace to people so they can do enough to earn God's favor. That is why RCC teaching never assures the person of salvation, but something to always work for. Biblically the issue is settled on Christ's righteousness. But as Paul notes in Galatians 2:20, this is a crucifying of the old person (and living in Christ); so also 2 Cor. 5:17.

Thus in First John, the person who has Christ's righteousness credited to him lives out that righteousness. The Holy Spirit is given to the believer in this life for that purpose. But as Paul notes in Romans 7, there is a constant battle going on - the old "sinful, self-righteous (in the technical sense) person" and the new person created in Christ Jesus. Ultimately Paul exclaims, "Who can save me from this body of death? Christ Jesus" (Rom. 7).

 

[VOW]

Hey, Wols:

If RC doesn't identify himself as a "papist @$$ who brays like a donkey" he might be okay!




Peace be with you,
~VOW