Catholic vs. Protestant Christianity

Righttruth

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I respectfully disagree....there are many, many "good people" (moral people) who do good deeds.

An individual can spend his or her entire lifetime doing good deeds (helping the poor, caring for orphans, etc)....however, if that individual does not have a relationship with Jesus Christ, the only true God....all is for nought

Jesus is the way, life and the truth, and all go to the Father through Him. There are many godly people of other faiths who follow, to the best of their abilities, the commandments of Jesus. So, they are going to be judged by Jesus and will be let in. And there are many hypocrites in Christendom who think that mere belief in Jesus will fetch them salvation, and they will be told they are not known to Him.
 
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HeatRamosHidden

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Jesus is the way, life and the truth, and all go to the Father through Him. There are many godly people of other faiths who follow, to the best of their abilities, the commandments of Jesus. So, they are going to be judged by Jesus and will be let in. And there are many hypocrites in Christendom who think that mere belief in Jesus will fetch them salvation, and they will be told they are not known to Him.
THe Bible it'self refers to some people as just or unjust.

If you think that you can go to Heaven by being just, then you're wrong.
 
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Vicomte13

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The question here was about evangelism, though, wasn't it?? Not about humanitarian institutions like hospitals and schools.

In your reply you called these things "evangelism" of the Catholic kind, but I don't know how many people would agree with that. It's certainly not what I answered to and I doubt that it was what our OP writer had in mind when he asked what he did.

I did call these things evangelism, yes. They are the Catholic way of evangelism. The "evangel" - the "eu-aggelos" is the good message or the good news. The good news is that God loves you and cares for you in this world and the next. Catholics teach by doing. They do what Jesus said to do, and they put a crucifix on the wall as a symbol to teach that THIS - this hospital, this education, this orphanage, this practical caring, THIS is what Christ is all about - loving, caring, tending to the needs of the flock in this world as in the next.

You don't see this as "evangelism". And you doubt others would either. That doesn't matter, though. What matters is that CATHOLICS consider this to be REAL evangelism - and consider preaching at people to be proselytizing, which is a different (and much less good, or real, thing). Catholics would ask, as St. James did, "What good does it do you to say 'be well' and go your way when you can see that the man is starving and is not well? Feed him and treat him and you show him Christ." THAT IS EVANGELISM, REAL evangelism. Flapping the jaws and trying to "convert" people isn't, not really, because words are wind.

What matters here is not whether or not you agree with the way I've used the word, but whether other CATHOLICS would agree with what I have said here, or disagree with it. I expect that if there were ten Catholics reading this, they would all recognize what I have said and nod their heads and say something like 'Yep, that's evangelism: do good things for people, serve them in their needs, that is being Christ to them, and that's how you bring Christ to people.'

Now, obviously Protestants, such as yourself, have a different view about that, and just about everything else. But that's what CATHOLICS think they are doing with worldwide charity - that's evangelism, as Catholics understand it: teaching the gospel by DOING it and putting up the Cross on the wall above it all, in just about every room, to remind everybody of what it's really all about.

That's Catholic evangelism.
 
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Blade

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hrdj... seek the kingdom 1st.. and His righteousness. Seek Him.. ask seek knock.. Yeshua/JESUS is real.. HE IS REAL! For me.. I found this site and your question one has to walk VERY SOFTLY. Asking is wise.. but in the end.. Which person are you going to listen to? The one you like..feels good..sound good?

JESUS IS REAL! Again this is what a GOD said "For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." To WHOM are you asking seeking knocking on?

Salvation is not ours to give.. we cant save anyone. Nor do we get to say who is and who is not saved..other then the one that denies Jesus Christ as lord... that KNOWS Jesus is lord.. and knows Hes the only way.. yet.. even then.. the BOOKS have not been open and we get no say on who gets in that book and not. Some will say just His NAME. and be saved...as it is written... I only say this because some are saying things that are not written.
 
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Korean-American Christian

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Jesus is the way, life and the truth, and all go to the Father through Him. There are many godly people of other faiths who follow, to the best of their abilities, the commandments of Jesus. So, they are going to be judged by Jesus and will be let in. And there are many hypocrites in Christendom who think that mere belief in Jesus will fetch them salvation, and they will be told they are not known to Him.

Hypocrites in Christendom who think that mere belief in Jesus (mere "head knowledge") will give them an automatic ticket to Heaven most likely do not have a relationship with Christ Jesus as their Savior and Lord
 
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amariselle

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Jesus is the way, life and the truth, and all go to the Father through Him. There are many godly people of other faiths who follow, to the best of their abilities, the commandments of Jesus. So, they are going to be judged by Jesus and will be let in. And there are many hypocrites in Christendom who think that mere belief in Jesus will fetch them salvation, and they will be told they are not known to Him.

Here is are those verses you're alluding to, where Jesus says "depart from me, I never knew you.":

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23


So, first of all, what is "the will of the Father"? We need to know this because unless we do "the will of the Father", Jesus says we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Thankfully, Jesus Himself tells us:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:38-40

And who is told to "depart"? Those who trusted in Christ alone for salvation? No. Those who brought Christ their "many wonderful works." Those who choose to trust in their "wonderful works" to save them, will not be saved.

Our salvation salvation is Christ plus nothing.


Jesus is not going to tell anyone to "depart" because they did not do enough "good works". Rather, He is going to tell those who have trusted in their "many wonderful works" to be saved (instead of in Christ's one time sacrifice for sin) to "depart."

The reason? He never knew them. He didn't know them and then stop knowing them, he never knew them. Why? Because they did not do the will of the Father and believe on the Son, instead, they tried to earn their way to Heaven and eternal life.

Jesus is the only Way.
 
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Righttruth

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Here is are those verses you're alluding to, where Jesus says "depart from me, I never knew you.":

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23


So, first of all, what is "the will of the Father"? We need to know this because unless we do "the will of the Father", Jesus says we will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven. Thankfully, Jesus Himself tells us:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:38-40

And who is told to "depart"? Those who trusted in Christ alone for salvation? No. Those who brought Christ their "many wonderful works." Those who choose to trust in their "wonderful works" to save them, will not be saved.

Our salvation salvation is Christ plus nothing.


Jesus is not going to tell anyone to "depart" because they did not do enough "good works". Rather, He is going to tell those who have trusted in their "many wonderful works" to be saved (instead of in Christ's one time sacrifice for sin) to "depart."

The reason? He never knew them. He didn't know them and then stop knowing them, he never knew them. Why? Because they did not do the will of the Father and believe on the Son, instead, they tried to earn their way to Heaven and eternal life.

Jesus is the only Way.

Jesus in the only way with good works. Faith without good works is dead.
 
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amariselle

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Jesus in the only way with good works. Faith without good works is dead.

James is written to believers, already saved, to chastise them because no one was able to see their faith being lived out in their lives.

We are saved by faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. If we add a single thing to Christ's finished work to be saved, we cancel grace (unmerited favour).

It's either grace or it's works, it cannot be both. (Romans 11:6)

If we go about "to establish our own righteousness" as the Jews did, we will not be saved. (Romans 10)

Christ is our Sabbath and we who have believed have entered into His rest and ceased from all our labours. (Hebrews 4:3)

Also, go back and read every verse I shared, in context, along with all those chapters, the entire letters actually.

Salvation is Christ's sacrifice plus nothing. It's a free gift, entirely unearned and unmerited.

God bless.
 
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amariselle

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Jesus in the only way with good works. Faith without good works is dead.

More on salvation by faith in Christ alone, not works:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
- John 3:14-18

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

"Then said they unto him, 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?'"

Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'" - John 6:27-29

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:38-40

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in His Son. (Romans 6:23)

We do not go about to "establish our own righteousness." (Romans 10:3)

Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe. (Romans 10:4)

Christ is our Sabbath. We who have believed have entered into that rest. Hebrews 4:1-5)

We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8)

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

Repentance from "dead works" and faith toward God. - (Hebrews 6:1)

By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified, but only by faith in Christ. (Galatians 2:16)

Also read Romans 4, Romans 5, Galatians 5, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 11

Our salvation is entirely by faith in Christ and what He has done. (The Gospel) 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
 
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Mountainmike

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But there of course is the problem with non denoms, and sola scriptura adherents generally.

You mean by your personal interpretation (only ) sacramental Eucharist is wrong, you then try to present as dogma. And 10000 Reformationist schisms and permutations holding mutually exclusive doctrines on everything from salvation , eucharist baptism ( the list is endless) proves you cannot interpret scripture alone which is why you are wrong,

But if I go back to the first Christians taught by apostles, as I urge the OP to do, take ignatius and polycarp disciples of John the apostle, and I read in such as the letter " ignatius to the smyrneans" written a number of decades after Christ, to see the faith handed on, I see sacramental Eucharist of the real presence valid only if performed by bishops in succession orvtheir appontees. So sacramental Eucharist is correct, our lord is really present, and that is why Catholics demand catechesis before they will allow it to be shared.

A mass of recent forensic evidence if Eucharistic miracles ( not that I am required to believe them) ,also hints that is true,

And that is what I urge the OP to do. Study tradition, which is the name given to the faith handed down, ( paradosis, traditions, does not mean " traditions" in present sense - it was the name given to the passage of the faith orally long before there was a New Testament, or most people could read! So study the authority of early fathers acting through council who chose the New Testament centuries on and see what was handed on. Including the primacy of Rome, acknowledged even by eastern then.

And the faith is nothing like the " me and Jesus" only saved when " asking Jesus in" of most nondenoms.

You cannot divorce tradition , authority and scripture, and allow a priesthood of all believers.
That was the mistake of the reformation.and why their house is divided and cannot stand.

Protestantism and Catholicism are both wrong. You can't listen to Kenneth Copeland and break bread with him, and you can't listen to the Anti-Christ Papacy. Sure, Pope Francis is nice, but the Mass, sacramental salvation and other tenants of the Catholic Church are all falsehoods.

Protestants, as I call them, think too much about their church. If you are non denominational, and only care about what God and his servants think, then that's good. If you care about what you think and only what you think about the Church you're in, there's no room for criticism.
 
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Righttruth

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James is written to believers, already saved, to chastise them because no one was able to see their faith being lived out in their lives.

We are saved by faith, not of works, lest any man should boast. If we add a single thing to Christ's finished work to be saved, we cancel grace (unmerited favour).

It's either grace or it's works, it cannot be both. (Romans 11:6)

If we go about "to establish our own righteousness" as the Jews did, we will not be saved. (Romans 10)

Christ is our Sabbath and we who have believed have entered into His rest and ceased from all our labours. (Hebrews 4:3)

Also, go back and read every verse I shared, in context, along with all those chapters, the entire letters actually.

Salvation is Christ's sacrifice plus nothing. It's a free gift, entirely unearned and unmerited.

God bless.

That is your presumption to say that James only referred to all those who have been saved. Who wants to hear anything when they know they are already saved? Without the fruit of the Spirit, people are lost!
 
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Righttruth

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More on salvation by faith in Christ alone, not works:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
- John 3:14-18

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

"Then said they unto him, 'What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?'"

Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.'" - John 6:27-29

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:38-40

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in His Son. (Romans 6:23)

We do not go about to "establish our own righteousness." (Romans 10:3)

Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe. (Romans 10:4)

Christ is our Sabbath. We who have believed have entered into that rest. Hebrews 4:1-5)

We are saved by grace, through faith, not of works. (Ephesians 2:8)

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9

Repentance from "dead works" and faith toward God. - (Hebrews 6:1)

By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified, but only by faith in Christ. (Galatians 2:16)

Also read Romans 4, Romans 5, Galatians 5, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 11

Our salvation is entirely by faith in Christ and what He has done. (The Gospel) 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Salvation is based on His sacrifice added with our responsibility to endure till the end all the sufferings and other things that go with our belief in Him.
 
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JacksBratt

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This is why our Lord Jesus gave us the Great Commission:

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

View attachment 204301
Agreed.

But there are going to be some that will not be reached, don't ya think?
 
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JacksBratt

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Thing is, everything He taught is not contained in the Bible! The Apostles knew a lot more than what is actually written!
True enough. However, for us, the Bible is sufficient.
Anything written that is not part of the Canon, is important and can be useful..........but..not the word of God.

If it contradicts the canonized word........it is to be tossed.
 
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Agreed.

But there are going to be some that will not be reached, don't ya think?

My dear sir, all people groups will be reached....once all people groups are reached, Jesus Christ will return

jpprogressscalemap.jpg
 
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JacksBratt

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And I respectfully disagree with you. The person who has done good works all his life HAS a relationship with Jesus Christ, and has had for his whole life. He just doesn't consciously know that and realize it in a way that he can articulate or understand. When he dies, he will meet the shepherd face to face and recognize his as the voice he was always following. He didn't know Jesus by the name Jesus, but he knew him nevertheless, as evidenced by his fruit. Jesus, of course, knew him all along, and always was leading this sheep in a different sheepfold.

Saintly non-Christians are crypto-Christians. Their great surprise will be discovering that they always knew Christ and were always following him, but didn't know they knew him because they didn't recognize the foreign name given to that voice within them they always followed to do all those good things.

Jesus knows his sheep and they answer to his voice.
WE can only know his sheep for sure by their fruits. You will know them by their fruits. Jesus said that.
And that applies even to people who call themselves "Hindus" because they didn't know better.

'He who loves me is he who does my commandments.'
I disagree...

There are avid and solid atheists who will argue till they are blue in the face that there is no God, who are generous, charitable and hospitable to all and go out of their way to be kind..... but, not saved.
 
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ubicaritas

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I'm pretty sure that a Lutheran such as yourself isn't worried about getting hurt by a cracker and some wine, but we are.

We do not believe it is merely a cracker and wine.

We don't believe that a soul that trusts in Christ will be hurt by his sacraments. Quite the opposite, the sacrament is given for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.
 
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Vicomte13

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I disagree...

There are avid and solid atheists who will argue till they are blue in the face that there is no God, who are generous, charitable and hospitable to all and go out of their way to be kind..... but, not saved.

And I expect that if they are atheists because they are repelled by the historical and current behavior of Christians and Muslims and Jews and other religious people - that they reject our gods because they find us to be such scumbags, and to have been such scumbags over the course of history that they are repelled by the notion of our religion - but that if Jesus is nevertheless talking to them through their consciences and spirits, which are all everywhere in direct communication with God, that if they are doing Jesus' will by being generous and charitable and kind - doing what Jesus said - that Jesus may very well know them and recognize them as his sheep at the end of it all, while so many who thought that membership in some organization, crying "Lord, Lord!" means they are "saved", though they were neither generous or charitable, will be turned away as goats.

Individuals are atheists for a reason, and that reason generally has to do with what men have done to them, not with God. If those atheists are nevertheless listening to Christ in their consciences and doing his commandments, Christ will know them and they will be acceptable to him, even if they did not join our clubs.
 
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