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Featured Catholic vs. Protestant Christianity

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by HRDJ, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Umhm... don't leave St. Prochorus out of the story. St. John did not actually pen revelation. He dictated it.

    Tradition

    Forgive me...
     
  2. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I drew the line at having a standing army, stealing from the Eastern Churches and torturing heretics as a means of reform.

    I think he was correct to complain. I don't blame him for leaving... but when he started a new religion he threw out the baby with the bathwater.

    Forgive me...
     
  3. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Question: Where does the tradition of a "Chair of Peter" first get mentioned?
    It simply doesn't exist in any Eastern Church.

    Forgive me...
     
  4. Vicomte13

    Vicomte13 Well-Known Member

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    Dunno. (Don't care either, to tell you the truth.)
     
  5. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    I don't believe it was actually ever his intention to start a "new religion." However, I specifically said I do not agree with everything he said or did, nor do I fail to acknowledge the evil done on both "sides" of the issue.

    Through everything, however, God has always had His faithful remnant, and His promise still stands true, the "gates of Hell" have not and will not prevail.
     
  6. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff. Thanks.
     
  7. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does that include these guys?

    Act 11:26
    And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    They stand as exclusive.

    Forgive me...
     
  8. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    Yes, why wouldn't it? I'm not sure I actually understand what you're asking or why...
     
  9. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Because they do not include others as you would.
    See what I'm getting at? Antiochians are an exclusive communion. They would (do) deny outsiders.
    How do we just claim membership with something that sees itself as exclusive?

    Forgive me...
     
  10. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    Who didn't include others? Saul (Paul) and Barnabas?
     
  11. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Technically, ALL churches "sell salvation to people". But that's not what Luther was opposing. Tetzel was playing fast and loose with the practice of indulgences, and clouded the practice. The practice is this: prayer, fasting and almsgiving for the remission of sins of those in purgatory. Tetzel was teaching that you could give a donation to the church and get out of purgatory for doing so. Tetzel was wrong, Luther tried to get something done about it. But it was never the teaching of the Church that you can buy your way into heaven.
    You know that if the shepherd leads the sheep down the wrong path, it's the shepherd that pays the price, not the sheep. The fact is that if you pray, fast, and give charity, God will allow for some remission of your sins on earth.
    Well, it wasn't a 'lie sold by Rome'. Rome asked for donations to build St. Peter's. It was a struggle. Tetzel tried to get more money by offering incentives he had no authority to offer.
    I agree with you, which is why I like to see more reform. The Church needs to reform every day, and never lose sight of that fact.
     
  12. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Fact is that if I ask for forgiveness..... in Christ's eyes I have no sins. Even without the fasting, and giving.

    My works are only good for one thing.... glorifying Him.
     
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  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Amen.
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like legalism. Is that what the RC teaches about the Gospel?
     
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  15. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    So if you're a Christian, and you struggle with a daily pornography habit, In Christ's eyes, you gave no sins?
     
  16. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    I'm not sure what "technicality" you are referring to here, however, I don't really care who or what it is that claims they can "sell salvation." If they do, I reject them because no one has that right, nor do they have that ability. So, I stand by what I said in regard to Luther being justified in taking a stand against such a practice.

    Nothing remotely Biblical about any of that either. So, I would still agree with opposing it.

    Indeed, Tetzel was wrong. However, Luther's problem with the Catholic Church went far beyond just Tetzel.

    That's debatable. In any case, Tetzel aside (and he does, quite conveniently, get all the blame), the Church was very much teaching that you can earn your way into heaven. No surprise therefore that perhaps certain people took such teaching just a step further.

    Actually, I would say both the shepherd and the sheep pay the price for going down the "wrong path."

    "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." - Matthew 15:14

    Sounds like works based salvation to me. I'll stick with what the Bible teaches, which is that Christ's blood, poured out on the cross of Calvary, is completely sufficient to purge my sins entirely. Those things you listed are, for the Christian, already saved, our "good and reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

    I'm sure that is exactly how Rome likes to spin the story now, washing their hands like Pilate. However, the very fact that the lie, which at the very least, was sold in their name, did not offend them or disgust them enough to prevent them from using the money collected in such a diabolical way to build St. Peter's, tells us their consciences weren't too badly troubled after all.

    I wish every single person, Christian or not, who goes to see that "beautiful" structure, could really and truly understand one of the main reasons it is even there to begin with. That Basilica, for all its earthly charm and magnificence, is built on the souls of untold thousands who were in fact lied to in the worst way anyone could ever imagine. Rome did not care enough about that to actually do anything to seek some kind of restitution. They used that money without any apparent qualms or guilt regarding all those people sold a lie about their salvation.

    Yes, what Tetzel did was wicked, but it does not excuse the Church that he represented from their own wickedness.

    The Church needs to cling to the truth of the Gospel and God's word. We are in a spiritual battle and we cannot afford to be naive or complacent.
     
  17. OrthodoxyUSA

    OrthodoxyUSA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They are all closed communion Churches. Every one of them.

    Members only.

    Forgive me...
     
  18. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, selling indulgences. Does the RCC still practice this "almsgiving for the remission of sins of those in purgatory?" I don't recall ever seeing the practice when I was an RC, but I knew a number of people who believed in those injection molded plastic "pardon crucifixes."
     
  19. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    A Christian that struggles with a daily pornography habit. Hmmm I wouldn't call that the behavior or someone who is a new creation. If it were speratic ok but daily I would say that's someone struggling to be a Christian.
     
  20. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    What I read in those passages, is that they were in fact sharing the Gospel with the Gentiles. In any case, I'm not sure what exactly you are saying, or how it relates to what I wrote earlier.
     
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