Catholic vs. Protestant – why is there so much animosity?

amariselle

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There are certainty different ideologies within the RCC yet I would be hard pressed to say they are not in communion with each other since they share the same Eucharist and recognise each other's status as Catholics part of the Church. The same could not be said for Protestantism which divides amongst itself on principal and does not find it necessary to recognise each other or have a universal communion amongst themselves. Lutherans and Baptists within the protestant schema don't need communion, so long as both adhere to the essentials of the faith. To put it another away, communion is nice but it is not necessary.

I would agree with your assessment of Pope Francis mind you, but even he hasn't divided the Church so thoroughly as Protestantism divided itself and many Catholics have not been shy in their criticisms of his pontificate.

Also I said that Protestants ultimately listen to their conscience and i would clarify that they do this by appeal to the scripture. How is this to falsely characterise the fundamental ethos of Protestantism when Protestants prove my assertion by their divisions and refusal to submit to anything but their interpretation of the bible? They do this with direct appeal to the Spirit mind you, as if no one else has it. That might be one of the fundamental differences between the ancient approach and the protestant approach, is that the ancient recognised the Spirit in more than just the self, but in the community as a whole. Thus to submit to ecclesiastical authority or even an educated lay teacher is sometimes the best option in the mind of Catholics and Orthodox.

That may be your idea of Protestantism, and that's fine, as we are all entitled to our opinions.

As for the division within the Catholic Church, my point is that it is significant. (Examples again with Vatican II, which many Catholics reject, insisting, among other things, that the Latin Mass is essential and that all Vatican II Popes are not true Popes at all.) I'd say that that is pretty major division, yet, they still call themselves Catholic. And so, on the surface, it seems there is not as much division, when there in fact is.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Please, give some names of masters of deception within the Roman Catholic Church, men or women who did not believe in what they wrote or taught.


Lets start with the Jesuit Ribera whose sole purpose was to counter the teachings of the reformers, not to interpert the truth of the Bible which is what the reformers did.

Jesuit Futurism

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591), a brilliant Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, answered Papacy’s call. Like Martin Luther, Francisco Ribera also read by candlelight the prophecies about the Antichrist, the little horn, the man of sin, and the beast of Revelation.

He then developed the doctrine of futurism. His explanation was that the prophecies apply only to a single sinister man who will arise up at the end of time. Rome quickly adopted this viewpoint as the Church’s official position on the Antichrist.

In 1590 Ribera published a commentary on the Revelation as a counter interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Papacy with the Antichrist. Ribera applied all of Revelation to the end time rather than to the history of the church. Antichrist, he taught, would be a single evil person who would be received by the Jews and who would rebuild Jerusalem.i

This deception has been accepted by a majority of the protestant world and is not supported by the truth of the Bible or History.

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
 
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fhansen

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First of all, to suggest that the Catholic Church does not itself have "individual fragmentation" is entirely false. Anyone who does research into this will discover that the Catholic Church, while it may seem on the surface to be unified, is in many ways anything but. Which is why I find it extremely disingenuous for Catholics to play the "there are many Protestant and Evangelical denominations" card. If division within the Protestant and Evangelical world somehow makes all Protestant and Evangelical beliefs and doctrines invalid, then the Catholic Church has the same problem.

For examples one might wish to research the division (which continues to this day) caused by Vatican II. One may also wish to look into the extreme division and confusion Pope Francis in particular has caused within the Catholic Church, and not only among the laity, but many members of the clergy as well.

Secondly, like it or not we all have the responsibility to "test" what we are taught and to not simply take something as absolute truth just because high ranking members of a religious organization say that something is true. (Take the Bereans who tested what Paul taught, for example). Scripture repeatedly tells us to beware of deception and to guard ourselves against it.

As Christians we know we will all stand before God one day, and we are all responsible for our own lives in the matters of what we believed and what we did with that. (Holding to correct doctrine, earnestly contending for the faith once delievered etc.) It's not a matter of personal, human conscience, but the guidance of the Holy Spirit which all true believers have. So, to suggest that Protestants just go around listening to their own conscience and have no true or Godly guidance, is unequivocally false.
Why would anyone relate disagreement of individual members with their church to disagreement between churches or denominations? In the case of the Catholic Church, a unified system of beliefs is presented. These define Catholicism. The same should be true of any church denomination, etc.
 
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amariselle

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Why would anyone relate disagreement of individual members with their church to disagreement between churches or denominations? In the case of the Catholic Church, a unified system of beliefs is presented. These define Catholicism. The same should be true of any church denomination, etc.

There's is much more than just disagreement between individual members in regard to the Catholic Church.

It all comes back to the argument that only Protestants and Evangelicals struggle with division, while the Catholic Church is a perfect example of unity. This is false.

That was my point.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Root of Jesse

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Man is subject to God, not the other way around. Some folks apparently view the Holy Spirit as a remote controlled deity commanded by a guy in a robe touching someone else's head.
So I guess you don't ask God to do things for you in prayer?
 
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Root of Jesse

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I'm not the one criticizing...
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yeah, that's what I said. Come on now.
Then you understand that this is what Baptism does for us.
Actually, water cannot wash away sin. Only the precious blood of Jesus can do that.
And the Holy Spirit, which descends on us at baptism.
Yeah, again, that's not what I said. Kindly address my actual comments rather than accusing me of things I did not say, perhaps then we can have an accurate and honest discussion.
You did say that the Holy Spirit can do so as He pleases, and that we don't need to call on him. I said we do call on Him all the time. As we do with God, all the time.
Also, we had better understand that while we definitely do ask God for His blessings, we do not command Him to do anything. We pray "Thy will be done."
I totally understand that. What makes you think that we Catholics do not understand that.
Alright. I'm not interested in continuing to discuss this in any case, as there was no response to what I actually wrote.
Your problem, not mine. I responded directly to you.
God bless.
You too. Gee, I hope he listens to me...
 
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amariselle

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Then you understand that this is what Baptism does for us.

Water doesn't wash away sin, only the precious blood of Christ does.

And the Holy Spirit, which descends on us at baptism.

And all those at Pentecost? They received the Holy Spirit as they were baptized with water?

You did say that the Holy Spirit can do so as He pleases, and that we don't need to call on him.

Yes, I did say He can do as He pleases (being God), but I did not say "we don't need to call on Him."

I said we do call on Him all the time. As we do with God, all the time.

Again, you have either simply misunderstood my post or you're deliberately mischaracterizing what I actually said.

I totally understand that. What makes you think that we Catholics do not understand that.

You are the one who claimed we call the Holy Spirit down from heaven repeatedly. So, my response was to you and not all Catholics.

Your problem, not mine. I responded directly to you.

You responded by presenting arguments that you came up with. I didn't actually say any of the things you attributed to me. Highly dishonest. No true or respectful discussion can be had in that case.

You too. Gee, I hope he listens to me...

Sarcasm duly noted. You appear to be entirely uninterested in honest and respectful discussion. As such, I won't be responding to you further.

Have a blessed day.
 
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Root of Jesse

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You're the one fabricating opinions for others and then addressing those fabrications, hence the funny little guy made of straw.
I could care less about your opinion. But you criticized the fact that our sacraments are involved with the presence of the Holy Spirit. So I reacted.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Water doesn't wash away sin, only the precious blood of Christ does.
Where's that in the Bible?
And all those at Pentecost? They received the Holy Spirit as they were baptized with water?
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
Yes, I did say He can do as He pleases (being God), but I did not say "we don't need to call on Him."
Then why the criticism of Catholics, who ask the Holy Spirit's cooperation?
Again, you have either simply misunderstood my post or you're deliberately mischaracterizing what I actually said.
If I misunderstand you, show me.
You are the one who claimed we call the Holy Spirit down from heaven repeatedly. So, my response was to you and not all Catholics.
It's true. We ask the Holy Spirit to come down (as shown at Jesus' Baptism in the Jordan) and bless the person, the bread, the oil, whichever Sacrament is being performed.


You responded by presenting arguments that you came up with. I didn't actually say any of the things you attributed to me. Highly dishonest. No true or respectful discussion can be had in that case.
[/quote]I guess you missed the clarification about what I was addressing.
Sarcasm duly noted. You appear to be entirely uninterested in honest and respectful discussion. As such, I won't be responding to you further.
Back at you. I'd like you to note that Catholics rarely criticize Protestants in how they worship, and rarely do we really care. Do what you want. What I do, here, is correct Protestants' misconceptions of the Catholic Church.
Have a blessed day.
 
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Root of Jesse

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I have no doubt you believe that as well.
You know, if I did, and you showed me (as the Bible requires), I would have a chance to admit my fault and ask forgiveness. But since you can't, or won't, I will let you be.
 
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