Catholic Views on Pope Francis as the Anti-Pope

[AlexDTX]

I listened to a Catholic speaker say that many Catholics regard Pope Francis as an Anti-Pope because the way the last Pope left and many things Francis has done to promote ecumenicalism to include pagans and atheists, as well as recently suggesting that the line in the Lord's Prayer be changed. Since I am not a Catholic, I am not clear on what he was saying. Could you all give me a better understanding of his meaning?

 

[Michie]

He is not considered an anti-pope. Who was the speaker?

I listened to a Catholic speaker say that many Catholics regard Pope Francis as an Anti-Pope because the way the last Pope left and many things Francis has done to promote ecumenicalism to include pagans and atheists, as well as recently suggesting that the line in the Lord's Prayer be changed. Since I am not a Catholic, I am not clear on what he was saying. Could you all give me a better understanding of his meaning?

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

Francis is the Pope. He is not and never will be the anti-pope. Yes, some folks are not happy with everything Francis has said or done, but that doesn't make him not the Pope. Many people are uncomfortable with his way of handling ministry primarily his reaching out to others of other faiths.....I follow a guy named Jesus who also had people that were uncomfortable with the folks he associated with. As for the Lord's prayer I think its a matter of translation and Francis discussing maybe reviewing that. Honestly, I haven't put much attention on that and tend to be a little aloof to that stuff. It's always worth discussing translation and understanding though. I think people are often uncomfortable with change. Francis didn't get elected to keep things exactly the same. He was elected to steer the Church. Frankly I think he is doing a good job of it.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

LOL - This sounds like a "I have a question and a ready-made answer where I'm going to rail against your pope" OP. Just sayin'.

 

[AlexDTX]

He is not considered an anti-pope. Who was the speaker?

Eric Gajewski. What does Anti-Pope even mean?

 

[AlexDTX]

Francis is the Pope. He is not and never will be the anti-pope. Yes, some folks are not happy with everything Francis has said or done, but that doesn't make him not the Pope. Many people are uncomfortable with his way of handling ministry primarily his reaching out to others of other faiths.....I follow a guy named Jesus who also had people that were uncomfortable with the folks he associated with. As for the Lord's prayer I think its a matter of translation and Francis discussing maybe reviewing that. Honestly, I haven't put much attention on that and tend to be a little aloof to that stuff. It's always worth discussing translation and understanding though. I think people are often uncomfortable with change. Francis didn't get elected to keep things exactly the same. He was elected to steer the Church. Frankly I think he is doing a good job of it.

Thank you for your response. As I said, I know very little about the papacy.

 

[AlexDTX]

LOL - This sounds like a "I have a question and a ready-made answer where I'm going to rail against your pope" OP. Just sayin'.

I can see why you might think that. The bait and switch tactic is used a lot. But in my case I am genuinely asking to hear what Catholics have to say.

 

[Michie]

You need to look that guy up. He has a horrific reputation. Don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Anti-pope: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Antipope

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Our first pope, St. Peter, was called "rock." A legitimate pope is solid like a rock, never wavering when it comes to defending the traditions of the Catholic faith. Does Francis fit that description?

 

[Rhamiel]

Anti-Pope means a false Pope

in more chaotic times of European History there were times there might be complications that would end with several claimants to the Papacy

I would not say that "many" Catholics think Pope Francis is a false Pope
there is an extremely small minority of Catholics who claim there has been no valid Pope since 1958, this view is called "sedevacantism"

Eric Gajewski has a slightly more nuanced view, he has serious disagreements with Popes from 1958 onward, but he recognizes them as Popes, all except Pope Francis, I forget his exact justifications now


Historically, not all Anti-Popes were bad people, some were elected by a group of Bishops after a new Pope was already elected, but the two groups of Bishops might not have been in communication because of war at that time, but any false Pope would be called an Anti-Pope

St. Robert Bellarmine in his book De Romano Pontifice talks about 5 views on if a heretic can be Pope
now St. Robert Bellarmine is a doctor of the Church, that means his teachings are held up as a definitive way to teach the faith, but also the way he presented the issue shows that this is not an open and shut case

 

[Charles in Ky]

Our first pope, St. Peter, was called "rock." A legitimate pope is solid like a rock, never wavering when it comes to defending the traditions of the Catholic faith. Does Francis fit that description?

No he doesn't.

I recognize him as a legitimate pope but a lot of things he has done and said does not sit with me very well.

For example what he has done to the FFI.

 

[AlexDTX]

Anti-Pope means a false Pope

in more chaotic times of European History there were times there might be complications that would end with several claimants to the Papacy

I would not say that "many" Catholics think Pope Francis is a false Pope
there is an extremely small minority of Catholics who claim there has been no valid Pope since 1958, this view is called "sedevacantism"

Eric Gajewski has a slightly more nuanced view, he has serious disagreements with Popes from 1958 onward, but he recognizes them as Popes, all except Pope Francis, I forget his exact justifications now


Historically, not all Anti-Popes were bad people, some were elected by a group of Bishops after a new Pope was already elected, but the two groups of Bishops might not have been in communication because of war at that time, but any false Pope would be called an Anti-Pope

St. Robert Bellarmine in his book De Romano Pontifice talks about 5 views on if a heretic can be Pope
now St. Robert Bellarmine is a doctor of the Church, that means his teachings are held up as a definitive way to teach the faith, but also the way he presented the issue shows that this is not an open and shut case

Thank you for this excellent answer. This has been helpful. By the way, I wish all my Catholic brothers and sisters a very happy and prosperous New Year this 2018. Blessings to you all.

 

[chilehed]

I listened to a Catholic speaker say that many Catholics regard Pope Francis as an Anti-Pope...

There are loonies in every crowd. Pope Francis is the Pope.

...because the way the last Pope left...

His resignation was unusual, but completely in accordance with Canon Law. There's no story there.

...and many things Francis has done to promote ecumenicalism to include pagans and atheists...

I can understand questioning the prudence of some of his methods. But that doesn't mean he's an anti-Pope.

...as well as recently suggesting that the line in the Lord's Prayer be changed.

Didn't happen the way most reports suggest.

Since I am not a Catholic, I am not clear on what he was saying. Could you all give me a better understanding of his meaning?

This might help: No, Pope Francis Is Not Changing the Lord’s Prayer.

"This is a classic case of the pope saying something and the media going hog-wild and completely distorting it." That's a line worth remembering whenever you hear news about the Catholic Church, because the vast majority of reporters are totally incompetent to report on religious matters. The don't understand the history, they don't understand the language, they don't understand the theology... they don't understand anything.

 

[AlexDTX]

@chilehed
Thank you for your response. I have read enough to understand the situation. Frankly, everything about Christianity in the main stream media is belittled and distorted, regardless of denomination or group.

 

[Kotton]

@chilehed
Frankly, everything about Christianity in the main stream media is belittled and distorted, regardless of denomination or group.

Oh, how true. Many is the time I've seen distortions of religious or church statements.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

This might help: No, Pope Francis Is Not Changing the Lord’s Prayer.

"This is a classic case of the pope saying something and the media going hog-wild and completely distorting it." That's a line worth remembering whenever you hear news about the Catholic Church, because the vast majority of reporters are totally incompetent to report on religious matters. The don't understand the history, they don't understand the language, they don't understand the theology... they don't understand anything.

With Amoris Laetitia, we were told by Catholic apologists not to worry and told that Francis had no intention of allowing the divorced and "remarried" to holy Communion. Cardinal Müller, then Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, said such an interpretation was not allowable. But then Francis fired him and wrote a letter endorsing the interpretation that Cardinal Müller said was not allowable. And then the Vatican officially made the letter public. The pattern was basically the same with reports of the Vatican's plan to honor Martin Luther with a postage stamp. We were told it was fake news until the Vatican actually did it. So I think it could happen similarly with this. Francis plants a suggestion in the media, and then he acts on it later after we are accused of being paranoid for worrying about it.

 

[Open Heart]

Our first pope, St. Peter, was called "rock." A legitimate pope is solid like a rock, never wavering when it comes to defending the traditions of the Catholic faith. Does Francis fit that description?

Doesn't make him an anti-pope. Not yet. It's only one issue that MAY violate Catholic Tradition (the Pope has yet to explain his reasoning; all we have is a footnote). The rest is only dealing with small t traditions, such as being open to married priests. He can do that.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Doesn't make him an anti-pope. Not yet. It's only one issue that MAY violate Catholic Tradition (the Pope has yet to explain his reasoning; all we have is a footnote). The rest is only dealing with small t traditions, such as being open to married priests. He can do that.

There's actually a long list of things he has done and said that have the Church worried.

 

[Open Heart]

There's actually a long list of things he has done and said that have the Church worried.

You mean that have some people in the church worried. Others have no problem with Francis at all.

The footnote about remarried Catholics receiving communion is the only issue where there is a possibility that he has broken with immutable doctrine.

 

[chilehed]

With Amoris Laetitia,...

None of that has anything to do with this issue.

Francis plants a suggestion in the media...

That didn't happen here.