Catholic or Orthodox - Charismatic stuff?

[prodromos]

You really think of Protestants as the same as Arians and Mormons?

Inasmuch as some of them have a severely distorted understanding of who Jesus is, certainly. Not the majority though.

 

[FireDragon76]

Inasmuch as some of them have a severely distorted understanding of who Jesus is, certainly.

Can you give an example?

 

[Markie Boy]

So many Catholics are so poorly formed they are easily swayed in to these experiential events.

Conservative Catholics have commented on how shallow the movement is, and after the rush of the experience wears off there is not much left. Here is a Cardinal's take on the rest in the Spirit thing:

"Cardinal Suenens agreed with other charismatic leaders that it was more properly referred to as the “falling phenomenon” rather than “resting in the spirit” and said it is “most important” that this phenomenon be excluded from liturgical celebrations and that churches should not invite ministers whose prayer or teaching is associated with it."

The Catholic Church seems to be growing more divided - the conservatives rejecting a lot of "unorthodox" stuff. Sad thing is too much of the hierarchy is promoting nontraditional, even heretical stuff - seems like all the way to the pope.

 

[Markie Boy]

I think one of the biggies for me is that the clergy are quite divided today in Catholicism. There are some good sound priests and bishops, but some that are just off the rails.

There was the priest that came out as gay in Milwaukee recently. The bishop allowed him to address the congregation to tell this news - why??? And the congregation stood and applauded.

Poorly formed leadership resulting in poorly formed sheep. It feels like Catholicism is just as mixed up as protestantism. I just don't know Orthodoxy well enough to know if these issues are there too.

 

[prodromos]

Can you give an example?

Yes. I know you can too. Why do you keep deflecting?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Can you give an example?

while this is nothing I have seen in the Lutheran confession, I have spoken to evangelical friends who are openly Nestorian insisting that it is heretical to call Mary the Mother of God, and there must be a human person in Christ for Him to be fully human.

and then there are the Oneness Pentecostals, who are Sabellians.

 

[FireDragon76]

while this is nothing I have seen in the Lutheran confession, I have spoken to evangelical friends who are openly Nestorian insisting that it is heretical to call Mary the Mother of God, and there must be a human person in Christ for Him to be fully human.

I think alot of that is confusion about what we mean by person and so forth. Those are very subtle philosophical issues. And no doubt, a great deal of anti-catholicism fuels that.

But in the end, I don't necessarily think a correct intellectual response is what saves us. Orthodox are correct to point out how these concepts are logically inconsistent, but it should be done in a way that does not threaten a persons trust in Christ as it actually exists.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think alot of that is confussion about what we mean by person and so forth. Those are very subtle philosophical issues. And no doubt, a great deal of anti-catholicism fuels that.

well, he flat out argued that there must be two persons in addition to two natures, and Mary is not the Mother of God. that is the Nestorian argument.

 

[FireDragon76]

well, he flat out argued that there must be two persons in addition to two natures, and Mary is not the Mother of God. that is the Nestorian argument.

Yes, I have seen that. I don't think it represents the best in Protestant theology (that's an understatement). Material heresy is a problem in many churches. As I said though, I think a correct intellectual response is not always something that is going to be present. Sometimes pressing a person like that on an issue will make simple theology naivite become actual material heresy. It doesn't necessarily represent a lack of faith in the sense a Lutheran would understand it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, I have seen that. I don't think it represents the best in Protestant theology (that's an understatement). Material heresy is a problem in many churches. As I said though, I think a correct intellectual response is not always something that is going to be present. Sometimes pressing a person like that on an issue will make simple theology naivite become actual material heresy. It doesn't necessarily represent a lack of faith in the sense a Lutheran would understand it.

I didn't press him, and he was one of many who had odd heretical views that were creeping out. the most common was Nestorian. it was just one example to answer your earlier question.