Catholic or Orthodox - Charismatic stuff?

[Goatee]

Charismatic movements are common in many western churches more or less, especially the larger ones.

I know somebody that is an Episcopalian that had hands placed on her and she ended up on the floor, like being "slain in the Spirit" as they say. This is somebody, mind you, who has advanced college degrees and works in the mental health field. Her description of what the experience felt like sounded like something that happened to me over a year ago, but it did not involve me falling down or anyone touching me. And I don't even go to a charismatic church.

I think you should keep an open mind but don't feel pressured to participate in anything you don't want to.

But, was it the Holy Spirit? Was it a bad spirit?

This is what i am wary of. Evil spirits can be very clever. Satan could behind the whole movement. Tricking people. Who knows?

 

[~Anastasia~]

I think it comes down to this - the enemy is always seeking to tempt, deceive, and ultimately destroy. He has many tactics, and to impersonate the Holy is one of them. Orthodoxy recognizes this.

Such deception can come to those of any kind of fellowship. What I appreciate about Orthodoxy in this regard is that they seem to have the longest experience in recognizing and dealing with such attacks.

End result being, prelest is possible in Orthodox Christians too, but they have many more tools and safeguards than those whose dealings with such things are only of a more recent experience.

 

[Markie Boy]

But, was it the Holy Spirit? Was it a bad spirit?

This is what i am wary of. Evil spirits can be very clever. Satan could behind the whole movement. Tricking people. Who knows?

YES! It's nice to see a Catholic that sees it this way - that's how I see it too. It's something we just can't be sure of, so it's best avoided.

This crowd in the Catholic Church here seems to chase every apparition, approved or not, one of them went to Medjugorje and seems frustrated it's not approved.

The Charismatic movement I know are nice people, but seem to be chasing signs and wonders.

I am just so sad that the Bishop and priest do not stop it. Part of me thinks the Catholic Church is loosing so many people they'll allow this to try and keep them or attract more, and they don't want to upset anybody for fear of loosing them.

Sadly - most Catholics I know are not very "orthodox", and I believe it's from too many years of watered down preaching that's trying to be nice and not offend anyone. You can't make them all read Scripture, but when they show up to church they do hear the preaching.

My choice seems to be this - stay in the Catholic Church and be the rebel and not take it. Or leave to the nearest Orthodox parish that's an hour and a half away, but my wife is life long Catholic and I don't think she'll leave, and our three kids will stay there with her for Church. At best I'd be able to make the Orthodox Church once a month.

But at this point I have so little respect left for the Catholic bishop and priests involved, staying is physically easier but spiritually harder.

 

[Goatee]

Could be evil spirts trying to take you away from the CC!

 

[Hermit76]

Charismatic movements are common in many western churches more or less, especially the larger ones.

I know somebody that is an Episcopalian that had hands placed on her and she ended up on the floor, like being "slain in the Spirit" as they say. This is somebody, mind you, who has advanced college degrees and works in the mental health field. Her description of what the experience felt like sounded like something that happened to me over a year ago, but it did not involve me falling down or anyone touching me. And I don't even go to a charismatic church.

I think you should keep an open mind but don't feel pressured to participate in anything you don't want to.

Remember, demons used to cast a young lad into the fire. I advise skepticism instead of an open mind.

 

[ArmyMatt]

YES! It's nice to see a Catholic that sees it this way - that's how I see it too. It's something we just can't be sure of, so it's best avoided.

This crowd in the Catholic Church here seems to chase every apparition, approved or not, one of them went to Medjugorje and seems frustrated it's not approved.

The Charismatic movement I know are nice people, but seem to be chasing signs and wonders.

I am just so sad that the Bishop and priest do not stop it. Part of me thinks the Catholic Church is loosing so many people they'll allow this to try and keep them or attract more, and they don't want to upset anybody for fear of loosing them.

Sadly - most Catholics I know are not very "orthodox", and I believe it's from too many years of watered down preaching that's trying to be nice and not offend anyone. You can't make them all read Scripture, but when they show up to church they do hear the preaching.

My choice seems to be this - stay in the Catholic Church and be the rebel and not take it. Or leave to the nearest Orthodox parish that's an hour and a half away, but my wife is life long Catholic and I don't think she'll leave, and our three kids will stay there with her for Church. At best I'd be able to make the Orthodox Church once a month.

But at this point I have so little respect left for the Catholic bishop and priests involved, staying is physically easier but spiritually harder.

I think the current Pope identifies or at least supports the Charismatic Movement as well

 

[Goatee]

I think the current Pope identifies or at least supports the Charismatic Movement as well

He does, which is a shame.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could be evil spirts trying to take you away from the CC!

if it's trying to take him to the Orthodox Church, it isn't an evil spirit.

 

[Goatee]

if it's trying to take him to the Orthodox Church, it isn't an evil spirit.

Who knows! Evil spirits like to tear souls apart.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Who knows! Evil spirits like to tear souls apart.

not by uniting them to the fullness of God's grace and truth

 

[Goatee]

not by uniting them to the fullness of God's grace and truth

Well, satan would do anything to confuse Christians!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, satan would do anything to confuse Christians!

not by encouraging someone to unite to Christ. he seeks to divide us from God. leading someone to the Truth would not confuse someone. Satan would seek to keep them in heresy

 

[Hermit76]

I think the current Pope identifies or at least supports the Charismatic Movement as well

Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement have been tied to the Liberation Theology that is popular in Latin America. There would be ties with Francis' ideology that would have made them allies in the past. I don't know if that was historically the case or not, but it is possible.

 

[FireDragon76]

Pentecostalism and the Charismatic movement have been tied to the Liberation Theology that is popular in Latin America.

These movements are in fact usually at odds with each other. Some liberation theologians were even critical of the Pentecostal movement because they see it as just an extension of the natural Hispanic tendency to value the spiritual over the material.

The Catholic Church's tendency is not to adjudicate questions of spirituality prematurely, especially in modern times. Unlike Eastern Orthodoxy, they do not necessarily insist there is only one kind of real spirituality.

 

[Hermit76]

These movements are in fact usually at odds with each other. Some liberation theologians were even critical of the Pentecostal movement because they see it as just an extension of the natural Hispanic tendency to value the spiritual over the material.

The Catholic Church's tendency is not to adjudicate questions of spirituality prematurely, especially in modern times. Unlike Eastern Orthodoxy, they do not necessarily insist there is only one kind of real spirituality.

Lol, I pastored a hispanic congregation near the border with Mexico. I didn't say they were unified movements. There have been ties at times between the two ideas. Pentecostalism has most certainly taken on a Liberation flair in some areas. You're right, raw Pentecostalism is the antithesis of Liberation Theology, but it has been adapted.

Btw, I don't see your last paragraph as a compliment to Catholicism. The strange darkness that Catholicism has taken on when mixed with the likes of voodoo, etc. is a great argument for Orthodox spirituality.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Unlike Eastern Orthodoxy, they do not necessarily insist there is only one kind of real spirituality.

also wrong. the Possessor and Nonpossessors were completely different in their practice, yet both were begun and supported by saints.

we absolutely reject that there is any one kind of spirituality.

 

[FireDragon76]

Vodun or Santeiria aren't Catholic.

In a church of a billion and a half people, material heresy is to be expected.

This is not something Orthodoxy is insulated from. In Greece it's not uncommon to hear about the evil eye and to find various new age type beliefs circulating. Some folk practices also include sacrificing animals to saints, a practice called kourbania.

Kourbania - Wikipedia

 

[Hermit76]

Vodun or Santeiria aren't Catholic.

In a church of a billion and a half people, material heresy is to be expected.

This is not something Orthodoxy is insulated from. In Greece it's not uncommon to hear about the evil eye and to find various new age type beliefs circulating. Some folk practices also include sacrificing animals to saints, a practice called kourbania.

Kourbania - Wikipedia

I stand by what I said.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and just in case anyone is interested:

Possessors had large and ornate Churches, were very involved with public life, did a lot of manual labor, and never really deviated from the daily Church schedules to include readings.

Nonpossessors had small and simple Churches, were isolated from public life, spent their time in prayer, and were given much freedom to read and pray as they saw fit.

so the idea that there is only one kind of spirituality in Orthodoxy is a really ignorant statement.

and that isn't even getting into the people of the world edifying monastics which also happens all the time.

 

[FireDragon76]

Charismatics are just a different type of spirituality. Something can be different without being wrong.

I judge Christians by their fruit, if I must judge at all. It seems to me charismatics and Pentecostals are capable of loving God and loving their neighbor the same as many other church traditions.

I read a few books by Michelle Perry who was involved in the controversial Toronto Blessing. Who else but the Spirit of God motivates a one-legged woman to go to Africa and care for orphans in Sudan? I'm not saying that's an automatic endorsement of all of Pentecostal spirituality, but to be unduly skeptical of the motives of others seems like a kind of spiritual blindness and lack of generosity in ones religion. I'm not impressed by folks that denigrate the religion of others just because it doesn't fit into their ecclessial boundaries.