Catholic Leaders Urge Support for Boy Scouts Under New Policy on Gays

[Cosmic Charlie]

I don't...I already checked. (Michigan chose to "opt out" of including more people for Medicaid through the Obama's new federal plan.) I could pay for a plan, but how is that helping me? I got enough bills on my low income already. And the abortion pills are going to be included under "contraceptives" i.e. the Plan B and other abortion inducing drugs.

1)You didn't check hard enough.

2) The insurance exchanges will be put in place irrespective of the Medicare expansion in a state.

A state can opt out of the Medicare expansion but not the exchange. If Michigan doesn't institute an exchange one will be put in place for it by the Federal goverment.

3) If you are below the poverty line and your state doesn't take the Medicare expansion you still qualify for tax credits (That's tax CREDITS not deductions, tax credits are way cooler because you get to take a credit without having to spend the money first) up to 100% of the cost of the plan.

4) Under the insurance exchange you can pick from a variety of plans, pick you like that doesn't include contraception if you want to

and

5) The exchanges need to be put into place by October 1 for implementation January 1 2014.

Many states have there insurgency exchange plans in place already.

(Including California's, which is huge) Interesting factoid that NO ONE in the Corporate Media is following :

All these exchanges ?

The plans are coming in way under expected cost and with way more coverage than expected.

Early returns are that Obamacare, from the insurance standpoint anyway is working.

 

[Chrystal-J]

Michigan House GOP backs expanded Medicaid, with conditions - theoaklandpress.com

LANSING (AP) — House Republicans on Thursday proposed an expansion of Medicaid eligibility to more low-income Michigan residents, but only if major changes are made to the government health insurance program such as limiting able-bodied adults to four years of coverage.

The time limit — touted by lawmakers the first such proposal in the country — would need the unlikely blessing of the Obama administration and ran into immediate opposition from Republican Gov. Rick Snyder and Democrats.

Snyder and others pushing for Medicaid expansion under the federal health care law, though, credited GOP lawmakers for putting forth a House bill for discussion. Senate Republicans met behind closed doors to talk about the plan and reached no consensus. It was crafted by a GOP workgroup of two representatives and two senators.

“Government assistance is not an entitlement. Government assistance should not be a lifestyle. Government assistance should be a temporary hand up,” House Speaker Jase Bolger told reporters at the Capitol.
~~~~
So, they're basically gonna add provisions that make participating in the program impossible. And even if you're able to participate in it, you'll only be eligible for 4 years. What are you supposed to do after that?

 

[AMDG]

I doubt many troops will leave. Most of them that have issues with it will probably just ignore the new policy entirely.

There's an exodus already. Troops that have as their sponsors churches are leaving already.

The LDS are *very* boy scout oriented. (I swear that they have more than their share of boys working toward and finally achieving their Eagle rank.) They also are strong in their belief of Leviticus 18:22. I wonder how they plan to handle this. Will they just say goodbye to the BSA, like so many other churches and not wait to see if this new development will lead to the thinking that this is just another lifestyle--no different from any other, or will they do as you suggest, just ignore it. Simply don't know.

 

[Gwendolyn]

That's what's being said, IMO, the BSA were not an explicitly sexual program before--why now? Little boys weren't interested in sex and since they weren't, sexual preferences meant nothing. It was pinewood derby and blue and gold dinners. In my day, the cub scouts were even considered to be too young to go on the overnights.

And, btw, when the child reaches the age of camping, the scout master (and assistant scoutmaster who is from the boys) do the chaperoning, but they can't be everywhere all the time. Especially true for "Bushwhacker's Camp for patrol leaders and the Order of the Arrow Camps and those survivalist camps. "Getting in on" in these camps should be the furthest thing from any boy's mind. They should be concerned with how to survive. (Heck, when my son went on the fifty mile bike trip (from the U.S. to Canada) that lasted for over a week--since there were service projects along the way--had to give the Scoutmaster Power of Attorney just in case the worst happened, but in reality knew the one Scoutmaster could not be "up-close and personal" to over 20 boys 24/7 the whole time. It's just not possible. So why the heck is sex of any orientation even being inserted into this organization? Why is this organization being destroyed?

I will echo ebia's question.

How does allowing EVERY BOY/MAN to join who wants to join equal sanctioning gay sex orgies?

This isn't about sex. No one is fighting for the right for little boys to have sex with each other. People only want the boy scouts to allow EVERY BOY/MAN to join who wants to join. That means men who want to have sex with women, and men who want to have sex with men.

But it isn't about sex. Your question could be turned around - why are only men who want to have sex with women allowed to join? Or little boys who may or may not grow up to have sex with women?

You are right, little kids don't think about sex, and orientation is a concept they cannot quite grasp because their hormones haven't kicked in yet. However, if a young boy entering his teens began to question his sexuality, he SHOULD NOT be kicked out just because he asked himself the question, "Might I love a man someday?"

And men who would like to lead should NOT be prohibited from leading just because they have sex with men behind closed doors. This organisation is about SCOUTING, about SURVIVING, not about sex - so why tell someone they can't join because you want to stick your nose into their sex life?

NOTE: Nothing I have said contradicts church teaching, nor does it condone homosexual activity.

 

[KatherineS]

There's an exodus already. Troops that have as their sponsors churches are leaving already.

The LDS are *very* boy scout oriented. (I swear that they have more than their share of boys working toward and finally achieving their Eagle rank.) They also are strong in their belief of Leviticus 18:22. I wonder how they plan to handle this. Will they just say goodbye to the BSA

Wrong on all counts. You really gotta stop watching FOX News or wherever you get your inaccurate information.

The LDS says they will stick with the BSA even with their new policy of not banning gay scouts.

 

[WarriorAngel]

You people frighten me sometimes with how much you think everything is about sex. Gay sex especially.

That is irony.
No one was thinking about sex until the powers that be - brot it up and into the BSA.
Whats the point?

And for anyone not following - 'homosexual' is tied to sexual.

The BSA was not a 'sexual' group. Its a kids program - where the topic of sexual anything - has nothing to do with camping, races, archery, swimming, badges, banquets....

 

[WarriorAngel]

People only want the boy scouts to allow EVERY BOY/MAN to join who wants to join. That means men who want to have sex with women, and men who want to have sex with men.

But it isn't about sex..

It seems to me a lot of folks have no idea what this is about.
I dont care about the what if's - my point is - frankly - the BSA ALWAYS let any boy join.

It has turned into 'sex' just by them - bringing this up - AS THOUGH - yes as though they never joined before - which is a crock.
A complete crock.

 

[AMDG]

That is irony.
No one was thinking about sex until the powers that be - brot it up and into the BSA.
Whats the point?

And for anyone not following - 'homosexual' is tied to sexual.

The BSA was not a 'sexual' group. Its a kids program - where the topic of sexual anything - has nothing to do with camping, races, archery, swimming, badges, banquets....

The program has absolutely nothing to do with sex--hetero or homo. Not even a topic for an older teen to even be thinking of in the BSA. And so if the boy never brings it up--as well should be the case, because of the nature of the program--there is no fear of being "kicked out" for being...anything sexual. The BSA is not a sexual organization, why pretend that it is? Why has this even been brought up? Some homosexual lobby's agenda, I bet.

 

[WarriorAngel]

The program has absolutely nothing to do with sex--hetero or homo. Not even a topic for an older teen to even be thinking of in the BSA. And so if the boy never brings it up--as well should be the case, because of the nature of the program--there is no fear of being "kicked out" for being...anything sexual. The BSA is not a sexual organization, why pretend that it is? Why has this even been brought up? Some homosexual lobby's agenda, I bet.

Homosexual leaders are not allowed...[as of yet]
But we shall see in the future. It's usually one small piece by one small piece as morals gets chipped away at.

 

[AMDG]

It seems to me a lot of folks have no idea what this is about.
I dont care about the what if's - my point is - frankly - the BSA ALWAYS let any boy join.

It has turned into 'sex' just by them - bringing this up - AS THOUGH - yes as though they never joined before - which is a crock.
A complete crock.

Yeah, same with the military. A lot of folks had no idea that it's not just another subset of civilian life--it was unique and unique things are just unique.

Now we have a social experiment that may cause (according to the Chaplains) a morale problem with an all volunteer force.

Well, looks like the BSA will be destroyed too from lack of sponsors which were mainly churches.

 

[Tallguy88]

Yeah, same with the military. A lot of folks had no idea that it's not just another subset of civilian life--it was unique and unique things are just unique.

Now we have a social experiment that may cause (according to the Chaplains) a morale problem with an all volunteer force.

Well, looks like the BSA will be destroyed too from lack of sponsors which were mainly churches.

That's right. Our brave men and women serving in uniform are no longer subject to dishonorable discharge because of the sexual orientation that they were born with.

I can imagine how much that must upset you.

 

[Wolseley]

That is irony.
No one was thinking about sex until the powers that be - brot it up and into the BSA.
Whats the point?

And for anyone not following - 'homosexual' is tied to sexual.

The BSA was not a 'sexual' group. Its a kids program - where the topic of sexual anything - has nothing to do with camping, races, archery, swimming, badges, banquets....

Standard liberal procedure. Create a problem, then blame the results on someone else.

 

[Gwendolyn]

It has turned into 'sex' just by them - bringing this up - AS THOUGH - yes as though they never joined before - which is a crock.
A complete crock.

They just had to pretend to be straight so the straight people wouldn't kick them out the door.

It isn't about sex. It is about equal opportunity. By squawking about how ugly and gross gays are, YOU make it about sex instead of this issue being about ALL MEN who wish to join being able to join freely, without lying to the troop about who they are.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I so find the judgment on ppl not in line with this crap - annoying.

Here's the thing - i have housed a friend and her bisexual son - 2 x's - and he slept in my sons room with him as a room mate... he considered joining BSA - but decided it wasnt his thing because he isnt coordinated [had nothing to do with his sexuality]. Tho we tried hard to get him to join - because he would have loved it.

My sons all went thru the BSA - my oldest is now an archery instructor for the BSA camp in the summer. My DH is pack leader...

Another boy - my sons closest friend is homosexual, and he went on camping trips with us for several summers - and shared a tent with my oldest - who has tried to help him...
Nevertheless; they maintain a good friendship... and he also fwasnt interested in BSA.

Then there were a few who did join - but the whole sexual thing didnt come up.

I find it rather scary ppl dont see this as some agenda. Because it is. Thats the truth.

Nobody cared before - nobody asked - it wasnt part of the group think.

 

[Tallguy88]

I so find the judgment on ppl not in line with this crap - annoying.

I feel the same way. Just from the other side. People being unreasonably judgmental on the scouts and those who support this decision.

Perhaps we can all tone down the rhetoric? I'll try harder, too.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I so find the judgment on ppl not in line with this crap - annoying.

Here's the thing - i have housed a friend and her bisexual son - 2 x's - and he slept in my sons room with him as a room mate... he considered joining BSA - but decided it wasnt his thing because he isnt coordinated [had nothing to do with his sexuality]. Tho we tried hard to get him to join - because he would have loved it.

My sons all went thru the BSA - my oldest is now an archery instructor for the BSA camp in the summer. My DH is pack leader...

Another boy - my sons closest friend is homosexual, and he went on camping trips with us for several summers - and shared a tent with my oldest - who has tried to help him...
Nevertheless; they maintain a good friendship... and he also fwasnt interested in BSA.

Then there were a few who did join - but the whole sexual thing didnt come up.

I find it rather scary ppl dont see this as some agenda. Because it is. Thats the truth.

Nobody cared before - nobody asked - it wasnt part of the group think.

See?
So why is it suddenly a problem now?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Standard liberal procedure. Create a problem, then blame the results on someone else.

Exactly!!

I feel the same way. Just from the other side. People being unreasonably judgmental on the scouts and those who support this decision.

Perhaps we can all tone down the rhetoric? I'll try harder, too.

You want to know rhetoric... i will give you some.

I see ppl attacking others who understand the teachings of the Church and try darn hard to follow them - including out in the real life world where ppl exist and souls stumble.

I have very close relationships with gays - bi's and so forth. I am told however - i am a basher.
If that doesnt make me irritated to be told i am something i am not - i cannot explain what does.
Furthermore; anyone trying to assist ppl away from this lifestyle choice - are called all kinds of intolerant names.

I for a fact have 1st hand experience on the BSA - my family is in it deep and when i tell you i have close gay friends - i assure i am not kidding nor am i afraid of them as some phobe...[gosh the mean things the left comes up with to keep everyone on the path of their agenda is unbelievable]
And when i say gays have always been able to join the BSA - again, its not hype...its not a lie. It is what it is.

I am talking about the older kids - BTW.

I have taught my kids - not tolerance - but love - the real love that says we help ppl see what kind of choice this is and how it can destroy them eternally. I also taught them prudence. Its not like they run out and start saying stuff... just because.
I teach my kids to accept ppl - and not hurt them.. no matter what kind of cross they bear. Including and not as an exception - homosexuals.

I find the rhetoric in here - attacking folks who wish to preserve the souls dignity - as hypocrisy.
Love doesnt mean we say 'Have at it...' which the left often forces the society to believe thats what it is... because it isnt.

I speak plainly - i let my no's be a no and my yes be a yes. Isnt that what Christ said to do?
Didnt He also state truth is a sword? Yes, it hurts.... but we dont pretend to spare feelings while we thank the good Lord we dont have their cross and carry on in our own business ignoring their plight. Cos ya know - thats NOT love... and never will be.

 

[WarriorAngel]

See?
So why is it suddenly a problem now?

The problem is - its going to turn into an agenda.

Why fix something that wasnt broke? I mean, really?

I see this as some way to needle in problems in the BSA.. somewhere down the line.

If you are an enemy [think satan] and you want to get in somewhere - and are quite cunning and know the ways to get to humans [its not a frontal attack] - wouldnt you use the trojan horse method?

I wish this world would take off the rose colored glasses. Eve was perfect and she couldnt see it, nor couild Adam... but we should be able to learn some time in human history - evil always has intent yet we keep on inviting it to take over.

That irks me, because we should be able to see things for the way they really are.

If things were running smooth - and the ship was on clear waters... why change courses back into a storm?

 

[crimsonleaf]

I would imagine the Catholic Church has a right to say whatever it wants about how it feels about gay scouts.

However, support is a matter of conscience and not law. Support is a voluntary act and can be withdrawn without legal consequences. Nobody said that when masses of secular individuals stopped using a certain fried chicken outlet recently, because of the outlet's religious stance, that they were breaking the law.

What I suspect the Church is doing is letting people who continue in their support know that they are not falling foul of the Church's teachings. But this raises the problem of the Church's attitude towards openly gay priests. From what I can gather, closeted gay priests are OK within certain guidelines but openly gay men are not. It seems hypocritical that the Church says on the one hand that open gayness is OK to support if it's boys, but open gayness is condemned if it's adults.

To be consistent shouldn't the Church accept openly gay scouts only if the take a vow of celibacy?

 

[Rhamiel]

To be consistent shouldn't the Church accept openly gay scouts only if the take a vow of celibacy?

not needed
we do not have straight adolescents make such vows

we encourage all people to live virtuous lives in keeping with their station and abilities.

Sin is sin, the idea that homosexuality is some "super sin" is misguided.

at the same time, we must always call out sin as something harmful to the soul of a person and harmful to society at large
it is very disturbing how so many want to say homosexual actions are not sinful