*Catholic Forums* Revelation

[anna ~ grace]

Hey, guys. So last night, I'm reading the notes from a site where the Douay-Rheims Bible is readable, and noticed in Revelation that some Church fathers have interpreted Revelation mystically. That's pretty cool.

I'm used to a very, very literal, futurist interpretation of Revelation, which makes some parts kind of difficult (horses surrounding Jerusalem?).

What does the Catholic Church teach about this book?

 

[Radagast]

What does the Catholic Church teach about this book?

As with Protestants, there have been many different Catholic interpretations.

 

[teresa]

this looks good...Agape Bible Study Lessons for the Revelation Study

About who Agape bible study is:

About Agape Bible Study

 

[anna ~ grace]

this looks good...Agape Bible Study Lessons for the Revelation Study

About who Agape bible study is:

About Agape Bible Study

Thank you!

 

[Rhamiel]

Here is Saint Bedes commentary on Revelation
I love his way of looking at it
Some things are literal, some are symbolic
His focus seems to be on the spiritual above the worldly/political
But it does not totally ignore the political or literal views
Beda Venerabilis - Explanatio Apocalypsis

 

[Rhamiel]

Bump

 

[anna ~ grace]

Read some of Bede's commentary; beautiful. And makes sense.

 

[Spherical]

I just had a course on that book. William Harrington, OP's book "Revelation" of the Sacra Pagina series is a wonderful resource. Accompanying it with Barbara Rossing's "The Rapture Exposed" would be very useful too.

In the end, the book was written to give hope to different Christian communities enduring hardships during very concrete times and places, so the message was addressed to them. The use of an apocalyptic language made sense to them, since they were already familiar with the book of Daniel and other non-Scriptural texts and traditions they had knowledge of.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hey, guys. So last night, I'm reading the notes from a site where the Douay-Rheims Bible is readable, and noticed in Revelation that some Church fathers have interpreted Revelation mystically. That's pretty cool.

I'm used to a very, very literal, futurist interpretation of Revelation, which makes some parts kind of difficult (horses surrounding Jerusalem?).

What does the Catholic Church teach about this book?

Keep in mind that as a Catholic you are not compelled to believe any one interpretation, especially not the Hal Linsey stuff. The Church has not pronounced in favor of any particular interpretation of the last book of the Bible.

 

[StevenMerten]

Here is Saint Bedes commentary on Revelation
I love his way of looking at it
Some things are literal, some are symbolic
His focus seems to be on the spiritual above the worldly/political
But it does not totally ignore the political or literal views
Beda Venerabilis - Explanatio Apocalypsis

Hi Rhamiel,
Did you find anything in
St. Bede study on Revelation that unlocks our understanding of the Third Secret of Fátima? Sister Lúcia says the secret is all about the Book of Revelation. The Blessed Mother said God would choose someone to decipher it.

 

[StevenMerten]

I like the Agapa Catholic Bible study on the Book of Revelation!

Jesus and the Blessed Mother have told us, through St. Faustina, that Jesus’, Second Coming, is Coming Soon! Jesus has told us that He is going to destroy the temple made of stone, and in three days, build a temple not made of stone. When God brought His Presence into Israel One, God resided in a stone temple. When Jesus brings His Presence to reside on earth, He will reside in the body of His Church, the Universal Church, the Catholic Church. Well we have to clean things up for Jesus’ Second Coming, so He has a proper temple to reside in.

The ‘measuring’ going on in Revelation 11, is the separation of holy from the profane. Simon Peter is the one doing the ‘measuring’ and he is using Anathema/’Excommunication’ (Keys to the Kingdom, Binding of sins), to do the ‘measuring’, which separates the holy from the profane. This correlates with the great angel reading the small scroll of auto-anathemas, which when completed, Jesus is crowned as King and Ruler of the world. Jesus is not King and Ruler of the world until His subjects put His Laws into enforcement on earth.

Agapa Bible Study

CHAPTER 11
The Two Witnesses and The 7th Trumpet​

The measuring of the Temple in Revelation is once again parallel in the book of Ezekiel but it is used in a different way. In Ezekiel chapters 40-42 Ezekiel has a vision of a "man, whose appearance was like "brass" who has a measuring rod and is measuring a temple that Ezekiel discovers is the new Temple of Yahweh. The "man" is measuring what will become the ideal Temple = the New Covenant people of God, the universal Church…

…In John's vision he is told to measure the inner court, the Church, but he is commanded to "exclude the outer court" that is outside the Temple. Measuring is a symbolic action in Scripture to show division between the holy and the profane. The "holy" is set aside for protection from destruction (see Ezek. 22:26; 40-43; Zech. 2L1-5; Jer 10:16; 51:19; Rev. 21:15-16). This aspect of measuring and setting up boundaries is linked to "seeing" and "judging…

…It would be Simon-Peter, the first Vicar of Christ who would "hear" the message and set the measure and the boundaries for the New Covenant Church!

The Greek word used in verse 2 "but exclude the outer court" is ekballo. A more literal translation might be to "cast out" or "excommunicate." This word ekabllo is most often used in the New Testament for casting out evil spirits (see Mk 1:34, 39; 3:15; 6:13, etc). In other words John is being told to "cast out" or "excommunicate" the outer court which is where those not part of the Covenant could gather. Prior to 70AD that group of non-covenanters was considered to be the "gentile dogs." Now the definition of non-covenanters will be changed to include those Jews who reject the Messiah.
Quoted from: CHAPTER 11​

Jesus has gifted us with Divine Mercy Sunday, and, the Divine Mercy Chaplet to prepare the Elect for Him to bring His Presence into. Jesus has opened His Mercy up wide open for anyone, no matter the depths of yours sins, to put on the ‘Wedding Garment’, of His Bride, in preparation for His Wedding Day, when He brings His Presence to reside in the body of His Church on earth. Christ’s Elect, the Bride of Christ, the Catholic Church Elect, will be protected by God, on her way to her wedding day, while the wrath of God purges the earth of the unrepentant wicked. St. Padrea Pio has the details on what the Bride of Christ Elect are to do, on her way to her wedding day, through the massive destruction of the ‘Three Days of Darkness’.

Agapa Bible Study

CHAPTER 11
The Two Witnesses and The 7th Trumpet​

In this Revelation passage the contrast is between the inner and outer courts. Question: What happened between the 6th and 7th Seals concerning the 144,000 saints of the True Israel? Hint see Rev. 7:1-8. Answer: They were protected from the coming judgment. That action is now being paralleled here between the 6th and 7th Trumpets. John's measuring of only the inner court is the protection of the true, New Covenant Israel from the outpouring of God's judgment and wrath. The outer court represents apostate Israel which is to be cut off from the number of the faithful New Covenant people who are now God's Temple (His dwelling place). Jesus Himself warned the Jews in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 13:22-30 that unbelieving Jews as a whole would be "cast out" from the Church while the Gentiles who accepted Him as Savior would be welcomed into the Kingdom and receive the blessings promised to the descendants of Abraham. Please read the Matthew and Luke passages. Matthew 8:11 "And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of Heaven; but the children of the kingdom will be thrown out (ekballo) into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."

Quoted from: CHAPTER 11​

 

[Michie]

When I was a kid Hal Lindsey scared the poop out of me reading his stuff.

Keep in mind that as a Catholic you are not compelled to believe any one interpretation, especially not the Hal Linsey stuff. The Church has not pronounced in favor of any particular interpretation of the last book of the Bible.

 

[StevenMerten]

When I was a kid Hal Lindsey scared the poop out of me reading his stuff.

Hi Michie,
As long as you are immersed in Christ's Divine Mercy, which I know you will be, you will be protected on your way to the Wedding Day of the Lamb. It is the other guys, who did not take advantage of Christ's tremendous offer of the Brides wedding garment, of Divine Mercy, that are going to have the 'poop scared out of them', on their way to hell.

 

[TuxAme]

In the Catholic Church, I think you'll find that it's generally interpreted in the partial-preterist sense. There's lots going on, but much of what's contained within has already been fulfilled.

 

[StevenMerten]

In the Catholic Church, I think you'll find that it's generally interpreted in the partial-preterist sense. There's lots going on, but much of what's contained within has already been fulfilled.

Hello TuxAme,
I do not know what you are referring to as 'partial-preterist'? As in any battle, it is the guy with the Superior Firepower, who wins the day. Jesus left St. Peter, and his Successors, in command of 'The Keys to the Kingdom', Christ's Power to bind and loost sins. It is the 'Sword of Christ's Mouth', Christ's lips binding sinners to their sins, which is the mega weapon, on the Battlefield of Armageddon. The King, Jesus, has already armed His Combat Angels of the Apocalypse/Apostolic Successors with the weapon of His mouth, in Catholic Church Anathema. Catholic Church Anathema is Christ's lips binding sinners to their sins. All our King, Jesus Christ, has to do is dispatch His Angels/Apostolic Successors, to engage Satan in Battle at Armageddon, and the Earth is Christ the King's Domain.

Matthew 13:38
The weeds are the followers of the evil one and the enemy who sowed them them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the world, while the harvesters are the angels. Just as weeds are collected and burned, so will it be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will dispatch his angels to collect from his kingdom all who draw others to apostasy, and all evildoers. The angels will hurl them into the fiery furnace where they will wail and grind their teeth. Then the saints will shine like the sun in their Father's kingdom.

Revelation 19:11 The King of kings.
The heavens were opened, and as I looked on, a white horse appeared; its rider was called "The Faithful and True." Justice is his standard in passing judgment and in waging war. His eyes blazed like fire, and on his head were many diadems. Inscribed on his person was a name known to no one but himself. He wore a cloak that had been dipped in blood, and his name was the Word of God. The armies of heaven were behind him riding white horses and dressed in fine linen, pure and white. Out of his mouth came a sharp sword for striking down the nations. He will shepherd them with an iron rod; it is he who will tread out in the winepress the blazing wrath of God the Almighty. A name was written on the part of the cloak that covered his thigh: "King of kings and Lord of lords."...

...REV 19:19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth, and the armies they had mustered to do battle with the One riding the horse, and with his army. The beast was captured along with the false prophet who preformed in its presence the prodigies that led men astray, making them accept the mark of the beast and worship its image. Both were hurled down alive into the fiery pool of burning sulphur. The rest were slain by the sword of the One who rode the horse and all the birds gorged themselves on the flesh of the slain.

Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son--a boy destined to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and to his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert, where a special place had been prepared for her by God; there she was taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days...

...Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. Although the dragon and his angels fought back, they were overpowered and lost their place in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent known as the devil or Satan, the seducer of the whole world, was driven out; he was hurled down to earth and his minions with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, the reign of our God and the authority of his Anointed One. For the accuser of our brothers is cast out, who night and day accused them before our God. They defeated him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death. So rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, earth and sea, for the devil has come down upon you! His fury knows no limits, for he knows his time is short."​

 

[StevenMerten]

Duplicate​

 

[anna ~ grace]

In the Catholic Church, I think you'll find that it's generally interpreted in the partial-preterist sense. There's lots going on, but much of what's contained within has already been fulfilled.

Thank you, that's helpful. Extremely helpful. Yeah, Hal Lindsey... a bit personal, but when I first came to Christ, much of my information was gleaned from an Evangelical radio station. Good stuff, but not all of it was good. Maybe 90% good, and the rest just... The end times stuff gets weird in places.

 

[anna ~ grace]

A mystical / symbolic / spiritual Revelation makes way more sense. Thank you.

 

[StevenMerten]

“J.M.J. The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917.

we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!' .

Quoted from http: www.ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/third_secret/fatima.htm​

There He is, Archangel Michael! In the ‘Third Secret of Fatima’, the Blessed Mother is indicating Christ’s great Combat Angel of the Apocalypse is locked and loaded, weapons hot. The fire king David tells us devours the earth, right before Jesus Second Coming to Rule the world, is spiritual death anathema’s delivered by Apostolic Successors on earth.

Michael is yelling 'Penance, Penance, Penance'! to warn us to be completely immersed in Jesus Divine Mercy, to shield yourself through the impending Battle of Armageddon, where he engages Satan in Combat.

Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son--a boy destined to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. Her child was caught up to God and to his throne. The woman herself fled into the desert, where a special place had been prepared for her by God; there she was taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days...

...Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. Although the dragon and his angels fought back, they were overpowered and lost their place in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent known as the devil or Satan, the seducer of the whole world, was driven out; he was hurled down to earth and his minions with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, the reign of our God and the authority of his Anointed One. For the accuser of our brothers is cast out, who night and day accused them before our God. They defeated him by the blood of the Lamband by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death. So rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, earth and sea, for the devil has come down upon you! His fury knows no limits, for he knows his time is short."

Psalms 96:11
Let the heavens be glad and the earth rejoice; let the sea and what fills it resound; let the plains be joyful and all that is in them. Then let all the trees of the forest rejoice before the LORD who comes, who comes to govern the earth, To govern the world with justice and the peoples with faithfulness.

Psalms 97
The LORD is king; let the earth rejoice; let the many islands be glad. Cloud and darkness surround the Lord; justice and right are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him; everywhere it consumes the foes. Lightning illumines the world; the earth sees and trembles. The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth. The heavens proclaim God’s justice; all peoples see his glory. All who serve idols are put to shame, who glory in worthless things; all gods bow down before you. Zion hears and is glad, and the cities of Judah rejoice because of your judgments, O LORD. You, LORD, are the Most High over all the earth, exalted far above all gods. The LORD loves those who hate evil, protects the lives of the faithful, rescues them from the hand of the wicked. Light dawns for the just; gladness, for the honest of heart. Rejoice in the LORD, you just, and praise his holy name.

Psalms 110:1
A psalm of David. The LORD says to you, my lord: “Take your throne at my righthand, while I make your enemies your footstool.” The scepter of your sovereign might the LORD will extend from Zion. The LORD says: “Rule over your enemies! Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like the dew I begot you.” The LORD has sworn and will not waver: “Like Melchizedek you are a priest forever.” At your right hand is the Lord, who crushes kings on the day of wrath, Who, robed in splendor, judges nations, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high the head.


​

 

[Mark_Sam]

Were you reading Haydock's Catholic Bible commentary? I like this one, mostly because it gives a quick overview and often cites Church Fathers and Church Teachers. It is helpful when looking up specific verses.
Overview - George Leo Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary

There has always been many interpretations of Revelation, but the Idealist and partial Preterist seems to be the most common or most popular. The Protestant Reformers held a Historicist view, and identified Antichrist with the Papacy, so the Catholic Church really didn't need to take a stance on Revelation until that time. Futurism was also popular at one time.