Catholic and Protestant reformers

Albion

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"What they did" was fracture the unity of the Body of Christ. So forgive me if I don't vote for that.
I think we already know how you would vote, no matter how I reply. But I will say that unless we look at the lives and doings of a number of the Reformers instead of Luther, Luther, and Luther, it is not reasonable to take a position with regard to the many Protestant reformers.

Besides, your perspective is terribly narrow. John Wesley, for instance, was by the standard that you are using for St. Francis a great reformer. And he was a Protestant. But he didn't fracture the church.
 
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Mary Meg

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I think we already know how you would vote, no matter how I reply. But I will say that unless we look at the lives and doings of a number of the Reformers instead of Luther, Luther, and Luther, it is not reasonable to take a position with regard to the many Protestant reformers.

Why do you say that? I'm not an unreasonable person. And I am a Protestant. I do look at the lives of the Reformers. I'm not dismissing them all. As I said, I really like William Tyndale, and there are others. But as far as the start of the Reformation, Luther's actions and personality, I don't care for that. Luther lit the powder keg that blew up Europe and the Western Church. He didn't create the powder keg, and maybe it would have blown up anyway, but he pretty well kicked it rather than handling it with care and respect. After Luther, the Reformation pretty well became an unrestrained free-for-all, with anybody who had a grievance with the Church, whether theological, political, or personal, taking the opportunity to make a break and grind his own ax. We really only hear and celebrate the "greats" like Luther and Calvin. I was pretty disgusted and appalled when I realized everything else that was going on at the same time.

Besides, your perspective is terribly narrow. John Wesley, for instance, was by the standard that you are using for St. Francis a great reformer. And he was a Protestant. But he didn't fracture the church.

Yes, I like Wesley a great deal. :heart:
 
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Albion

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Why do you say that? I'm not an unreasonable person. And I am a Protestant. I do look at the lives of the Reformers. I'm not dismissing them all. As I said, I really like William Tyndale, and there are others. But as far as the start of the Reformation, Luther's actions and personality, I don't care for that. Luther lit the powder keg that blew up Europe and the Western Church.
Sure, but who started the Protestant Reformation and how did that work out was not the topic of this thread.
 
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Mary Meg

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Sure, but who started the Protestant Reformation and how did that work out was not the topic of this thread.

Right, I voted for somebody else and you said I should vote for your guys. :grimacing:
 
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Mary Meg

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You didn't?
Either way, the vote has to go to the Protestant reformers if we think of what they did and compare that with the record of such as the Catholic figures you named.

I think we already know how you would vote, no matter how I reply.

It was you who called it a "vote" in the first place. Anyway, I'm being silly. Lighten up. Can't we agree to disagree? I hope you admit that there were some admirable people in the first 1,500 years of Christianity.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Who were the greatest?
They all played their part in calling for reform and a return to the doctrine of Christ. But here are some of them.
Peter Waldo, Jan Hus, Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus, Conrad Grebel, Petr Chelčický, Felix Manz, George Blaurock, Wilhelm Reublin
 
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PanDeVida

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Who were the greatest?

Catholic and Protestant Reformers: Who were the Greatest.

Mathinspiration,

Jesus Christ never meant for there to be a discussion of who is the greatest Church, for any other church than the one he founded on Rock, is one church too many.

Peace,

Pan De Vida
 
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Root of Jesse

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I would venture to tell you that the Catholic Church is always, and always will be, in need of reformation, and always has been. We are, after all, fallen. The faith Christ gave us, guided by the Holy Spirit, is perfect. I would agree with Mary Meg, that those standouts she mentioned were wonderful reformers.
 
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