Carved Icons?

[SalemsConcordance]

The dream was a stark warning, and it terrified me. It revealed that He never knew me!

Dignus, what fruits have you born to compare yourself to the great Prophets and Apostles?

I would encourage you to remove pride - as it seems in these latter days we have much delusion and self-proclaimed "prophets." Is not your dreams just as valid as any charismatic or mega church pastor? Or perhaps a Muslim and their dreams? They have their own "prophets" as well.

I can't go two feet without a agnostic, gnostic 'Christ is just a archetype' blasphemer-Christian, Protestant or pagan telling me of stark dreams that "come true." I used to have them as well, they are seductive and make you feel oh so holy, special and "must warn" people. In fact, you should write about it, and tell people! Perhaps they will be thankful and God is then using you for your holiness to warn them!

Then you have to remember who you compare yourself to, and that we are in great, great times of confusion.

From the Daily Prologue by St Nikolai

SAINT NICETAS OF THE KIEV CAVES

Nicetas, to the Creator, prayed
That the Creator make him worthy
To be able to see the Creator.
"Appear to me, O God, O God!"

O Nicetas, sin is pursuing you,
If this, from God, you implore!
Make yourself worthy and you will see
The All-eternal One in eternity.

The Immortal God does not allow
That mortal eye upon Him gaze.
Even to the celestial world it is frightful
To gaze upon the Almighty.

To us is given this life
In which to prepare ourselves,
That we become worthy, only after death,
To gaze upon the eternal Light.

But Nicetas implored and prayed
That the Creator make him worthy
To be able to see the Creator:
"Appear to me, O God Most-high."

Then, to him, the devil appeared:
"Bow down before me!" said he.
And Nicetas, as quickly as possible,
Bent the knee before him!

He thought it was an angel,
But it was the devil all aglow
With the glow of falsehood,
Which filled Nicetas's entire cell.

O my brother, do not tempt God:
This age is the age of preparation.
In this age is faith;
In that age, however, is vision.

First the battle, then the victory;

First the pain, then delight;

All occurs in its own time.

 

[E.C.]

Why are y'all feeding the troll?

 

[ArmyMatt]

for the sake of any lurkers

 

[buzuxi02]

I'd never heard of this. The fellow who wrote this article is Orthodox, and claims carved icons are "legitimate" icons and were common in the early Church. Is that right?

Bas relief icons are common especially in ornamental and decorative applications and for illustrative purposes. But the common practise of the Church is to venerate painted icons which are windows into heaven.

 

[Psalm 27]

Dignus, what fruits have you born to compare yourself to the great Prophets and Apostles?

I should have typed ‘non sum dignus’ not ‘im dignus’ I’ve edited it now. Sorry, I understand why that won’t have come across well.

I’m definitely not a prophet or apostle. Stop feeding me now please.

 

[prodromos]

Stop feeding me now please.

Exercise self control. Stop responding.

 

[Psalm 27]

Exercise self control. Stop responding.

Stop responding to me. I get alerts, even though I’ve chosen to unwatch the thread.

I’m a last word freak

 

[ArmyMatt]

Stop responding to me. I get alerts, even though I’ve chosen to unwatch the thread.

I’m a last word freak

serious questions, why did you post here in the first place? do you honestly think we don't read the Bible, so that just throwing Bible verses at us would actually do anything fruitful?

 

[prodromos]

Stop responding to me. I get alerts, even though I’ve chosen to unwatch the thread.

I’m a last word freak

No self control, and pride. You're as bad as me. Fortunately the Orthodox Church provides the tools to reign in both of these passions and more.

 

[Psalm 27]

serious questions, why did you post here in the first place? do you honestly think we don't read the Bible, so that just throwing Bible verses at us would actually do anything fruitful?

I saw the thread ‘carved icons’ on new posts. Didn’t know it was an orthodox thread.
Posted the first commandment, as I believe carved icons can be worship idolatry for some.
Pasted some Bible quotes about dreams and visions, because somebody said something about ignoring dreams - to prove that The Lord does give people dreams, even if they are simply a personal warning. And not every dream or vision should be ignored.

 

[Psalm 27]

No self control, and pride. You're as bad as me. Fortunately the Orthodox Church provides the tools to reign in both of these passions and more.

Which tools?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I saw the thread ‘carved icons’ on new posts. Didn’t know it was an orthodox thread.
Posted the first commandment, as I believe carved icons can be worship idolatry for some.

so, how do you know it's idolatry for us?

 

[prodromos]

Which tools?

Fasting from meat and dairy two days a week (Wednesday, because Judas (and we) betrayed Christ & Friday because Christ was crucified) as well as longer periods leading up to feast days helps us to practice self control. Being obedient to our confessor helps us to grow in humility and weaken our pride.

 

[Chesterton]

For the record, I don't think you're a troll. I think you have some of the same misunderstandings I had long ago before I saw the light of Orthodox Christianity.

I saw the thread ‘carved icons’ on new posts. Didn’t know it was an orthodox thread.
Posted the first commandment, as I believe carved icons can be worship idolatry for some.

I want to be clear - is it just carved icons you take issue with, or also with the normal painted icons we use?

 

[Psalm 27]

For the record, I don't think you're a troll. I think you have some of the same misunderstandings I had long ago before I saw the light of Orthodox Christianity.

I want to be clear - is it just carved icons you take issue with, or also with the normal painted icons we use?

All of them to be honest. I was rc, and got used to saint statues in church, and paintings etc.
Paintings of Jesus are often fair hair, blue eyes, and I just have the feeling that they’re not accurate.

If you disagree with groups/people on forums, you’re labelled a troll and reported to mods. You can’t win ‘em all

 

[Psalm 27]

so, how do you know it's idolatry for us?

I don’t. But believe they can be for some.

 

[Hermit76]

All of them to be honest. I was rc, and got used to saint statues in church, and paintings etc.
Paintings of Jesus are often fair hair, blue eyes, and I just have the feeling that they’re not accurate.

If you disagree with groups/people on forums, you’re labelled a troll and reported to mods. You can’t win ‘em all

You realize that Orthodox icons do not depict Him as such?

 

[Taodeching]

An Orthodox icon of Christ:

 

[Chesterton]

All of them to be honest. I was rc, and got used to saint statues in church, and paintings etc.

We Orthodox are a little uncomfortable with statutes, I think, which is one reason I made this thread. There may be a gradation of what's going on when you go from two dimensional written (painted) icons, to carvings, to bas-relief, to statues.

Paintings of Jesus are often fair hair, blue eyes, and I just have the feeling that they’re not accurate.

That's true in the West, but as mentioned above, that's not how He is portrayed within Orthodoxy. But the accuracy of what He looked like is not of primary importance. What's very important is that God became man, so we should portray that truth. It separates Christianity from Judaism and Islam and every other religion. "Stuff got real" as the kids say. He was real like us, became matter like us, became human like us, because He loves us. It's a foundational truth of our faith, and that's why iconography of the Lord is important.

If you disagree with groups/people on forums, you’re labelled a troll and reported to mods. You can’t win ‘em all

Oh yeah I know well how that goes. But technically there is a rule prohibiting speaking against people's beliefs within each of the different "Christian Communities" forums. But I don't mind debating a little here since you're not being obnoxious or anything.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don’t. But believe they can be for some.

so if you don't know our stance, why throw Scripture at us instead of asking?