Cardinal Pell's appeal has been dismissed.

[Ana the Ist]

If you are interested you can see St Patrick's Cathedral Melbourne on Google Satellite. The sacristy where the abuse is said to have occurred is right at the back and juts out towards the circle garden. The door the complainant said they used to re-enter the Cathedral is right next to the sacristy. By time the choir procession had reached that door, the boys entered the sacristy, poked around and found the wine and began swigging, there would have been people using the sacristy.

Andrew Bolt is known for having very strong opinions but at least his diagram at 5:26 helps to understand the situation. On Youtube enter: Bolt Pell innocent.

I get that they made a "he's too busy to molest kids" defense...but I've looked at the case. They were able to go public with the evidence that Pell was touching children. The police had multiple independent reports of the same behavior from earlier dates.

Now...I don't know exactly what happened more than anyone. I wasn't there...neither were you. What I do know is the evidence points to Pell molesting young boys and getting away with it for years. It's almost inconceivable that multiple adult men all remember being molested by this man as children and they are all making it up. Given the circumstances, it seems most likely that we'll never know the full extent of his crimes and whatever punishment he gets will be inadequate.

 

[creslaw]

I get that they made a "he's too busy to molest kids" defense...but I've looked at the case. They were able to go public with the evidence that Pell was touching children. The police had multiple independent reports of the same behavior from earlier dates.

Now...I don't know exactly what happened more than anyone. I wasn't there...neither were you. What I do know is the evidence points to Pell molesting young boys and getting away with it for years. It's almost inconceivable that multiple adult men all remember being molested by this man as children and they are all making it up. Given the circumstances, it seems most likely that we'll never know the full extent of his crimes and whatever punishment he gets will be inadequate.

The public swimming pool claims were ridiculous - I have touched my own children inadvertently while roughhousing in the pool with them. And the one when he was not even in Australia at the time was also absurd. I don't know if all the reports are equally false but I don't buy the "where there's smoke, there's fire" argument ... or that he deserves to be found guilty because of other complaints. That is not justice.

The police went out looking for people to make complaints ... and I have enough inside knowledge to know they promised monetary compensation.

I am not saying I know Pell is innocent or guilty but I think all the information should be considered, not just the media's & activists' preferred version.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The public swimming pool claims were ridiculous - I have touched my own children inadvertently while roughhousing in the pool with them. And the one when he was not even in Australia at the time was also absurd. I don't know if all the reports are equally false but I don't buy the "where there's smoke, there's fire" argument ... or that he deserves to be found guilty because of other complaints. That is not justice.

Ridiculous? So all those men who remember being molested by this guy were mistaken?

The police went out looking for people to make complaints ... and I have enough inside knowledge to know they promised monetary compensation.

Sure you do. It's called investigation. Police do it when they suspect someone committed crimes.

I am not saying I know Pell is innocent or guilty but I think all the information should be considered, not just the media's & activists' preferred version.

I don't think "I'm too busy to be molesting children" is a great defense....and I don't blame the jury for finding him guilty. There's even a guy who claimed to have caught him molesting a kid. What exactly is the level of evidence that you would need?

 

[creslaw]

I don't think "I'm too busy to be molesting children" is a great defense....and I don't blame the jury for finding him guilty. There's even a guy who claimed to have caught him molesting a kid. What exactly is the level of evidence that you would need?

What I am saying is that each case must be decided according to our well established rules of justice ... it appears if you were on the jury you would have voted guilty because you had heard bad things about the man.

Pell's defence in this case was not "I'm too busy to be molesting children" but a specific account of his time on the day verified by witnesses. This was summed up in meticulous detail by Justice Mark Weinberg whose report helped progress the case to a full hearing by the Federal High Court.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What I am saying is that each case must be decided according to our well established rules of justice ... it appears if you were on the jury you would have voted guilty because you had heard bad things about the man.

Pell's defence in this case was not "I'm too busy to be molesting children" but a specific account of his time on the day verified by witnesses. This was summed up in meticulous detail by Justice Mark Weinberg whose report helped progress the case to a full hearing by the Federal High Court.

I feel like I've acknowledged it's possible that he didn't commit the crime he's convicted of. I mean, it's also possible OJ Simpson will one day find "the real killer". I just find these possibilities unlikely...because I've heard the evidence.

I also understand that his molesting all those boys in the pool doesn't mean he molested the two at church. I get that. The problem is, I can't "unhear" those facts...and it seems extremely unlikely that he molested all those boys and by sheer coincidence, happened to have false allegations of molestation leveled against him decades later. Do you understand how unlikely that is?

Finally, there's a very limited amount of sympathy I can extend to a child molesting priest convicted of child molestation. If we were talking about a murderer who only got wrongly convicted of theft....I can't really sympathize. I can sympathize a little...it's entirely the wrong crime, but their punishment should be worse.

Now a thief wrongly convicted of murder...I can sympathize with. Even though they are still a criminal, their punishment is far worse than the crime they committed. Does this make sense?

In this case, if he's a child molester wrongly convicted of child molestation....it's basically the best kind of "injustice". He's been getting away with the crime he was convicted of years...if he was wrongfully convicted of the same crime, why should I (or anyone else) be concerned with the unlikely possibility that he was wrongfully convicted of child molestation and sexual assault?

 

[NeverL0ved]

Did you know statistically a great number of adults never mature emotionally or mentally past the age of 12. They're adults on the outside, but immature children on the inside.

Food for thought

 

[Tinker Grey]

Did you know statistically a great number of adults never mature emotionally or mentally past the age of 12. They're adults on the outside, but immature children on the inside.

Food for thought

Citation required.

 

[NeverL0ved]

Citation required.

No citation required, just believe what I tell you.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The police went out looking for people to make complaints ... and I have enough inside knowledge to know they promised monetary compensation.

If you "know" that police were somehow paying off witnesses, why don't you take it to ICAC?

 

[creslaw]

If you "know" that police were somehow paying off witnesses, why don't you take it to ICAC?

That is not what I said.

 

[creslaw]

I feel like I've acknowledged it's possible that he didn't commit the crime he's convicted of. I mean, it's also possible OJ Simpson will one day find "the real killer". I just find these possibilities unlikely...because I've heard the evidence.

I also understand that his molesting all those boys in the pool doesn't mean he molested the two at church. I get that. The problem is, I can't "unhear" those facts...and it seems extremely unlikely that he molested all those boys and by sheer coincidence, happened to have false allegations of molestation leveled against him decades later. Do you understand how unlikely that is?

Finally, there's a very limited amount of sympathy I can extend to a child molesting priest convicted of child molestation. If we were talking about a murderer who only got wrongly convicted of theft....I can't really sympathize. I can sympathize a little...it's entirely the wrong crime, but their punishment should be worse.

Now a thief wrongly convicted of murder...I can sympathize with. Even though they are still a criminal, their punishment is far worse than the crime they committed. Does this make sense?

In this case, if he's a child molester wrongly convicted of child molestation....it's basically the best kind of "injustice". He's been getting away with the crime he was convicted of years...if he was wrongfully convicted of the same crime, why should I (or anyone else) be concerned with the unlikely possibility that he was wrongfully convicted of child molestation and sexual assault?

I can only say I am glad our society does not endorse your twisted notion of injustice being justice.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I can only say I am glad our society does not endorse your twisted notion of injustice being justice.

My guess is your society has all kinds of people wrongly convicted of crimes.

Few of those are as deserving as a child raping Cardinal.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

That is not what I said.

What did you mean to say then?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

You are assuming that he is innocent. The fact that there is much going on and the guy is wearing heavy robes does not mean he didn't do it! Having been the victim of molestation by an old Catholic man---in his home, with his wife and daughters in the house---I can tell you that it does not take a hidden room and dark corners with no one around for this to happen! When one of the daughters found me crying in the bathroom I told her what happened---she ran and got her mother---the daughters and the mother then shut me up in a small closet without light. This was in Costa Rica and the temperature in there was stifling and there were cockroaches allover the place and I was screaming my head off for hours until I finally just either passed out or fell asleep. When I woke up I was told if I said anything I would go right back into that closet. Needless to say---I never mentioned it to anyone. I don't know which was worse, being raped at 5 or being shut up in the closet. And no, this did not cause me to hate Catholics. When I was finally brought home to my father in the states---he took up where the old man had left off.
I can tell you this---it can happen in less than 5 minutes---in can happen where there are people around, it can happen right after, and during prayers, it can happen in the middle of dinner with a bunch of people present just a hand under the dress--if you scream, it's just that the poor girl bit her tongue or some such thing as he gently hugs you and pats you on the back and then wipes away the tears with the same fingers he used to poke you with---You have no idea how cunning these people are, nor how totally callused and without conscience.
Not up to me to say whether he is guilty or not---just that the "window of opportunity" and the circumstances, do not have to be very long, nor without anyone around nor that it can't possibly happen right after the man has just said mass! It can and does.

Yes I am assuming he's innocent based on the details. I also believe that the testimony of one person should not imprison a man for something that apparently happened years ago and is impossible to verify.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes I am assuming he's innocent based on the details. I also believe that the testimony of one person should not imprison a man for something that apparently happened years ago and is impossible to verify.

I am not assuming either way---I just know what these people are capable of and you, apparently, do not. Nobody knew what happened to me until I was an adult. Adults program children to keep quiet, they are afraid and scared and even into adulthood, they are marred by this.

 

[creslaw]

What did you mean to say then?

What I said.
You are confusing bribery (which I did not say) with compensation (which I did say).

 

[creslaw]

My guess is your society has all kinds of people wrongly convicted of crimes. Few of those are as deserving as a child raping Cardinal.

Thank God our society does not condone incarceration based on untested allegations ... that sounds more like Iran or North Korea.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

What I said.
You are confusing bribery (which I did not say) with compensation (which I did say).

So in other words all perfectly legitimate and above board.

 

[creslaw]

So in other words all perfectly legitimate and above board.

I did not say it wasn't ... you said that ... LOL

The question of whether monetary compensation contaminates the judicial process is a matter of debate but is a factor to be considered when evaluating testimony, especially if it has been explicitly raised by a task force actively seeking complainants.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Thank God our society does not condone incarceration based on untested allegations ... that sounds more like Iran or North Korea.

Not sure what you mean by this....but Pell's allegations were "tested"....in court.