Cardinal Marx says anti-gay discrimination, not same sex marriage, is defeat for Church

[Michie]

Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich has distanced himself from the apocalyptic scenarios some Catholics have voiced over Germany's new same sex marriage law, saying the Church should be more concerned over its historic complicity in demonizing gay people.

Continued below.
Cardinal Marx says anti-gay discrimination, not same-sex marriage, is defeat for Church - La Croix International

 

[com7fy8]

We need to know right from wrong, so that we do not also join in what is wrong. And it is wrong to have a wrong desire or preference in our heart. Jesus wants our hearts to favor all which is pleasing to our Father.

Therefore, I have been so deeply wrong, by self-righteously criticizing wrong people. I even have welcomed news of very evil things in churches, so that I could say oh yes those groups are fake and wrong. And hypocrisy is possibly more wrong than how one wants use people to get pleasure.

And, by the way, I am being corrected that love does not have me only using any person. So, any sexual preference could be wrong, if it is about using people for pleasure!!

The scriptures give us help for how to find out how to love, including > Ephesians 5:21, Ephesians 4:31-5:2, Colossians 3:13, 1 Peter 5:3, 1 Peter 3:8-9.

It is right to love and have hope for any and all people. Because Jesus suffered and died like He did, on Calvary's cross, with hope for any evil person, at all. So, we have hope for God to correct any person out of any wrong thing, at all, so the person becomes reconciled with God and becomes strong in loving any and all people as oneself.

So, in case a church person gets committed to making a project of hating gays and looking down on them, this can keep the person from discovering how Jesus has us love.

We have our own wrongs to deal with.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, if we make a project of giving attention only or mainly to how gays are wrong, this could be a slick trick of Satan to keep our attention away from how we ourselves need God's real correction and how He has us become able to love.

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" Jesus does say, in Matthew 5:46. But I can have ways of picking and choosing who is good enough for me to love and have hope for that person.

What can help is we ourselves seek our Heavenly Father's correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < then with God discover how He has us loving, and be examples of how God has corrected us to get into real loving. And what we have learned and gained is what any other wrong person needs. And God uses example

 

[NewLove]

The Church will continue to teach that gay marriage and homosexual acts are wrong, much as it teaches that is other activities, though legal, are wrong. The Cardinal is correct that the Church and especially people in the Church have for far too long demonized homosexuals while virtually ignoring many other sins. When was the last time your Pastor reminded you that it is sin to eat meat on a Friday outside of Lent without committing some other act of penitence?

 

[Rhamiel]

When was the last time your Pastor reminded you that it is sin to eat meat on a Friday outside of Lent without committing some other act of penitence?

5 months ago

when was the last time your Pastor reminded you that homosexual acts were sinful?

 

[Michie]

I was going to say, we are reminded of eating meat on Fridays requires an act of penance or charity.

5 months ago

when was the last time your Pastor reminded you that homosexual acts were sinful?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I was going to say, we are reminded of eating meat on Fridays requires an act of penance or charity.

Even as a Lutheran, we are encouraged to abstain or give in return.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I was going to say, we are reminded of eating meat on Fridays requires an act of penance or charity.

Basically, we can tell who is sound and attends Church over who has pet political motivations.

 

[Michie]

Oh yes indeed. It is quite transparent no matter how hard they try.

Basically, we can tell who is sound and attends Church over who has pet political motivations.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Oh yes indeed. It is quite transparent no matter how hard they try.

It's amazing what you'll hear by a sound servant of God if you actually go and listen; that adultery, drunkenness, lying, gossiping, etc are all sins along with committing and supporting homosexual acts.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Oh, clergy hung up in the past!
It's so tiresome...

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Oh, clergy hung up in the past!
It's so tiresome...

Here I was thinking yesterday, today and tomorrow was genuine speech.

 

[football5680]

I don't know why we would be more concerned about that.

 

[com7fy8]

I don't know why we would be more concerned about that.

There can be concern about what kind of bad example is being openly promoted in public. A number of sin things are known to be wrong and are publicly not approved. But if certain wrong things are promoted in public, these can get more attention with attack.

There is a matter of if people are betraying God's trust and betraying children, by means of a bad example. Betraying children goes beyond preference of how one seeks pleasure. You are not loving, if you are betraying!!

And it is wrong to tempt people to sin. Is this not a mortal sin, in the Roman Catholic Church? So, if wrong people are helping us to excuse ourselves to self-righteously condemn them . . . this is helping to tempt people to sin deeply, instead of being a good example to us. However, we are not excused to give in to this temptation.

But are public promoters of gay stuff the ones who are the main bad example to our children? Our Apostle Paul says >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)

Arguing and complaining, then, also are a bad example to children. These can help to keep a child from having a good example of how to please God and how to relate in love. And such stuff can be right in the home, not only on TV and in school > arguing and complaining can be done by parents who have such personal contact with their own children. And because of this children could grow up not knowing how to love the way Jesus wants, in marriage.

So, bad example right in the home can help to keep a child from discovering how to love. This can be more damaging to a child, than public promoting of gay stuff.

So, if ones are so busy with criticizing gays, but they are not giving attention to what Paul says about stopping arguing and complaining, then possibly this gay bashing is a design play to keep our attention away from how Paul says we can "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault" right "in the midst of" this world's "crooked and perverse generation".

So, this with God is possible now, right in this evil world with all its temptations and trickery; because the grace of God's love can cure our character so we are gentle and humble and all-loving and strong enough not to give in to anti-love things like arguing and complaining and using people for selfish pleasure seeking.

Love does not have us just using anyone, but God's love has us personally caring for each and every person. So . . . yes . . . we seek You and thank You for this, Heavenly Father

 

[NewLove]

5 months ago

when was the last time your Pastor reminded you that homosexual acts were sinful?

Every other week or so on average. What percentage of parishioners, just take a wild stab, eat meat on Fridays outside of Lent without adopting an additional, special penitential act and what percentage take part in homosexual sex?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Every other week or so on average. What percentage of parishioners, just take a wild stab, eat meat on Fridays outside of Lent without adopting an additional, special penitential act and what percentage take part in homosexual sex?

Yes because the two are comparable..
Oy vej...

 

[Rhamiel]

Every other week or so on average. What percentage of parishioners, just take a wild stab, eat meat on Fridays outside of Lent without adopting an additional, special penitential act and what percentage take part in homosexual sex?

Wow, he talks about it a lot

 

[NewLove]

Yes because the two are comparable..
Oy vej...

Are they not? Both are potentially damning, aren't they?

 

[bill5]

Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich has distanced himself from the apocalyptic scenarios some Catholics have voiced over Germany's new same sex marriage law, saying the Church should be more concerned over its historic complicity in demonizing gay people.

i.e. the "Obama Defense." How.......disappointing, to put it kindly.

Dear Cardinal: the past does not equal the present. Please join us in the reality of today. If anything, we are coddling and showing preferential treatment to the so-called "LBGTs" (or Qs or whatever the acronym for such emotionally ill people is now). But I guess I shouldn't be surprised as Germany has long had high tolerance for odd/warped/etc behavior.

We should not be concerned about history, because........wait for it........it's HISTORY. We should concern ourselves with the world we live in NOW.

How absurd that that needs to be explained.

 

[NewLove]

Apologizing for wrongs done - especially in the name of Christ - ought not be such a distasteful idea to the Christian. It is both possible and necessary to acknowledge and publicly repent for the wrongs the Church and its people have done while also recognizing that sin is sin and it is as it ever was. Homosexual sin is evil, just as heterosexual sin is. Those truths must be told with compassion and respect for the dignity of the sinner and in the manner most likely to bring that person to Christ.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Are they not? Both are potentially damning, aren't they?

The one is about church discipline and the other is about offending God.
The former is under the sin of disobedience and must be willed in order to even be a sin whereby homosexual acts are gravely disordered and a grave sin in and of itself.

Homosexuality in practice is a sin that people in and of themselves are to recognize even without the bible.
Its revealed to us by the general or ordinary revelation as reffered to as natural theology by Thomas Aquinas.
Of course it's easy for a to spot several scriptural passages where its adressed too.
So its kind of a double whammy.

The friday abstinence is different, it's not something man could know about God and his will by living and observing nature.
It's described as special revelation.

So, what's the difference?
Well the one thing is a mortal offence in and of itself and are so in any culture at any time in history whereby the other must be willed and committed by a person who not only know about the practice, but also decide to blow it of.

Needless to say most Catholics who fail to observe the discipline do so out of forgetfulness and so they don't fall into sin, well except venial sin that is.

The one act is ALLWAYS sinful the other isn't necessarily so.