• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    58.3%
  3. Maybe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I am not sure but am willing to learn

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  5. Does it matter?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Other

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    The Olivet Discourse in all 3 Gospels start out practically the same way.

    They each describe the magnificence of the Temple, its' buildings, the stones, stone up stone thrown down and fleeing Judea. Discuss............

    Matthew 24:
    1 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the Temple, and His disciples came near to show Him the buildings of the Temple, 2 and Jesus said to them, ‘Do ye not see all these? Verily I say to ye, there may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.’
    16 then those in Judea — let them flee to the mounts;

    Mark 13
    :
    1 And as He is going forth out of the Temple, one of His disciples saith to him, ‘Teacher, see! what stones! and what buildings!’ 2 and Jesus answering said to him, ‘Seest thou these great buildings? there may not be left a stone upon a stone, that may not be thrown down.’
    14 ‘And when ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (whoever is reading let him understand), then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains

    Luke 21:

    5 And certain saying about the Temple, that with goodly stones and devoted things it hath been adorned, he said, 6 ‘These things that ye behold — days will come, in which there shall not be left a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.’
    20‘And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation; 21then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her

    However only Luke appears to be the only one that mentions Jerusalem being encompassed and people being led captive

    This greek word is used in only 4 verse of the NT, 1 verse in the Gospels, and 3 verses in Paul's epistles.

    Strong's Number G163 matches the Greek αἰχμαλωτίζω (aichmalōtizō),
    which occurs 7 times in 4 verses in the Greek

    Luke 21:24
    And they shall be falling to mouth of a sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
    And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.

    [Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

    Now look at Revelation 13:10

    Revelation 13:10
    If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
    If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
    Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Here are the 2 primary verses up for discussion:

    Luke 21:24
    And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
    And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.

    [Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]

    Now look at Revelation 13:10

    Revelation 13:10
    If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
    If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.

    Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
     
  3. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,617
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    i voted. :)
     
  4. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Which choice did you vote for?

    I must have forgotten to make the voters public......egads!!!
    [I can't edit it in]

    I voted:

    I am not sure but am willing to learn
     
  5. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,617
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    I voted "no" :)
     
  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Thanks for voting brin.....
    I am extremely interested in the member who voted yes and hope the member will post about it.
     
  7. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,617
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    Hahaaaa! You could ask. [​IMG]
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    The siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians is almost a mirror image of the siege of Jerusalem by the Roman army in 70ad.

    Jeremiah 15:
    1

    Then the LORD said to me, “Even if Moses and Samuel stood before Me, My mind would not be favorable toward this people. Cast them out of My sight, and let them go forth.
    2
    “And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?’ then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
    “Such as are for death, to death;
    And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
    And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
    And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” ’
    5
    “For who will have pity on you, O Jerusalem?
    Or who will bemoan you?
    Or who will turn aside to ask how you are doing?
    Jeremiah 16:
    3
    For thus says the LORD concerning the sons and daughters who are born in this place, and concerning their mothers who bore them and their fathers who begot them in this land:
    4
    “They shall die gruesome deaths; they shall not be lamented nor shall they be buried, but they shall be like refuse on the face of the earth. They shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, and their corpses shall be meat for the birds of heaven and for the beasts of the earth.”
    erning their mothers who bore them and their fathers who begot them in this land:

    Luke 21:23
    "Woe yet to the-ones in belly having, and to those giving suck in those, the Days.
    For shall be great distress/necessity on the Land, and wrath in these People;

    Luke 23:
    27
    And there was following him a great multitude of the people, and of women, who also were beating themselves and lamenting him, 28and Jesus having turned unto them, said, ‘Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but for yourselves weep ye, and for your children;
    29 for behold! days do come, in which they shall say, 'Happy the barren, and wombs that did not bare, and paps that did not give suck;'

    http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

    .........The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival.......

    .........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
    The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen.
    In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;......................

    Interesting. "In one day...."

    Revelation 18:8
    by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine; and in fire She shall be being burned, that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her
     
  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    [​IMG]

    Okie dokie. What member voted yes?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  10. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +4,074
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    That was me. Admittedly, I didn't look into the details first, but I share your preterist view of the warnings regarding the temple.

    I wish we could all have a reasonable discussion of the Revelation and -as I have seen you do before- contrast it with the accounts of Josephus.
     
  11. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,617
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    it worked!!!

    Thanks for responding, HTacianas.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Thank you. You almost inspire me to also vote yes.
    [I made the poll where one could change their vote.]

    I could make a "safe house" for only those that believe 70ad Jerusalem is shown in Revelation.
    How would that be?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    It sure did.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +1,707
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    You can accomplish the same thing, I think, by choosing the partial preterist tag as the prefix in the title when you create a new thread.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,603
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I won't vote as these two verses are about different events:
    Luke's is about the Roman conquest in 70-135 AD.

    Rev 13:10 refers to all the Christians who must endure all that will happen and stand strong in their faith until Jesus Returns.
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

    +339
    United States
    Christian
    Private


    I don't think we can really separate Luke 21:24 out of the Chapter like that. Pulling a single verse out of God's Word is not really the way of understanding. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation 6, all must be weighed together. We must also understand the idea of Biblical ensamples (1 Cor.10:11).

    To my understanding of the whole, our Lord's Olivet Discourse contains verses that represent the 70 A.D. destruction by the Roman armies, and also the final destruction of the temple of Rev.11:1-2 built for the times of the Antichrist in Jerusalem at the end of this present world. The desolation described in Luke 21:20 in association with the armies that surround Jerusalem at the end of this world is not the same "abomination of desolation" (AOD) idea described by our Lord in the other two Olivet discourse examples of Matt.24 and Mark 13. The AOD event per the Book of Daniel does not involve literal physical desolation of the temple, but instead spiritual desolation inside a standing temple in Jerusalem (the Romans destroyed the 70 A.D. temple).
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Different events? Interesting........
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  18. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Luke 21:24
    And they shall be falling to mouth of a sword<3162 >
    and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
    .................

    Let's see where this greek word for "sword" is used elsewhere in the NT.

    3162. machaira makh'-ahee-rah probably feminine of a presumed derivative of 3163; a knife, i.e. dirk; figuratively, war, judicial punishment:--sword
    Strong's Number G3162 matches the Greek μάχαιρα (machaira), which occurs 29 times in 26 verses

    1st time used:

    Matthew 10:
    34 Not ye should be inferring that I came to be casting peace upon the land;
    Not I came to be casting peace, but a sword<3162>

    35 for I came to set a man at variance against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, 36 and the enemies of a man are those of his household.

    [Ezekiel 38:21
    Then will I call against him every terror, declareth My Lord Yahweh.
    The sword of every man against his brother shall be; [Matthew 10:34-36/Revelation 6:4]


    Used in 3 verses of Revelation:

    Revelation 6:4
    And there went forth another horse — red, and to Him who is sitting upon it, there was given to Him to take the peace from the land, and that one another they may slay,
    and there was given to him a great sword<3162>.
    [Ezekiel 38:21/Matthew 10:34]

    Revelation 13:
    10
    If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
    If any in sword<3162> to be killed, is binding him in sword<3162> to be killed.
    Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
    14
    and it leadeth astray those dwelling on the land, because of the signs that were given it to do before the beast,

    saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the beast
    that hath the stroke of the sword<3162> and did live,
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  19. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +776
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican

    What about Daniel 11 as well?

    Daniel 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days .
    34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
    35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


    Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Per Daniel 11:32 it is hard to determine what is meant by many days in that verse. But if we allow Luke 21:24 to help us interpret the meaning, according to Luke 21:24, the many days meant in Daniel 11:32 might be meaning Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
     
  20. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

    +28,284
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Libertarian
    Excellent. and thank you for bringing up Daniel.
    I did not realize till just lately how many members actually try to separate Luke 21 from the other 2 Gospels and Revelation.....
    I am just scratching my head over it.......
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
Loading...