capital punishment in America

[Blackguard_]

there is something very cruel about punishing people for the limitations placed on them by their disability.

How was he being punished for his retardation?

The death penalty denies the chance for the person to be redeemed and transformed by Christ.

Like the thief who was executed next to Jesus?

I tend to think more the opposite. If knowing the hour of your death doesn't get you reflecting on your life and afterlife consequences, not much will.

Besides, I guess I beleive in God's sovereign will/predestination more than people who say stuff like that. If it's God will someone is going to be saved, Man is not going to be able to damn him.

Jailing them also prevents them from offending again...if public safety is the goal.

Not always. Plenty of crime happens in prison for one. Plus they can escape or be let out early by bleeding-heart judges/parole boards to kill or whatever again.

Remember, the guy who faced a 30-30 in Utah murdered someone during an escape attempt.

 

[Blackguard_]

I disagree. Killing someone for killing someone in no way equates to justice in my mind...only revenge.

Then what would be justice for that?

Like I said earlier how is "hang em' high" revenge but "lock him up and throw away the key" not? I don't know if you have that attitude, but I've seen it a lot in anti-DP people.

 

[explodingboy]

What does it have to do with priests? Priests are no more likely to be child molesters than any other group of men.

You missed all the news on the last wave of the Catholic sex abuse scandal?

or you don't see how an instant death penalty on the priests, who the church had been moving around, might lead to a pretty spectacular clash in PR.

This has nothing to do with singling out priests or picking on the Catholics.. just the observation that killing child molesters will make for a spectacular policy collision.

 

[radhead]

I'm going to say yes. Murder is prohibited in the Ten Commandments.

 

[armyman_83]

I am for capital punishment. I believe it should be used more.

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed."--Gen. 9:6

God has commanded us to kill in accordance of the law in the OT, and while we do not do everything in accordance with the Old Law, it is only wise and prudent to take from the past and build upon it such rules and regulations that would benefit society.


Many people do not understand that the Justice system is just that--to adminster justice, not to rehablitate offenders.

 

[Stravinsk]

I believe in capitol punishment for certain crimes.

I wish they had it in Australia. Even for serious crimes, the sentencing is so lenient here it's ridiculous. It's constantly complained about and made a media issue, but nothing is done. The result, imo, is reflected in the ever increasing crime rate. There are plenty of seriously violent and evil people that *know* they will do so little time for serious crimes that they have little restraint in doing them. That's sad, but it's true.

I understand that the system is not perfect and that it's a terrible thing when someone who is innocent dies by the hand of the State. At the same time, consider the convicted murderer who gets paroled and murders other people. Is that a less terrible thing?

 

[CoachR64]

"All killing is no more murder than all sex is adultery." CS Lewis

I love how people claim the death penalty is cruel and inhumane, but advocate locking people in a cage like animals for the rest of their lives. Seems really backwards to me.

Coach

 

[Scottish Knight]

Capital punishment - The Bible allows it so I give it a cautious yes. Because taking a life is a big deal it should only be used for the most serious of crimes such as murder and only with sufficient evidence (such as two trustworthy witnesses) and its use should be tempered with mercy.

 

[MacFall]

This has nothing to do with singling out priests or picking on the Catholics.. just the observation that killing child molesters will make for a spectacular policy collision.

Maybe. And perhaps it even should. But my feeling is that far too many Catholics would support it. Christians have a poor record when it comes to opposing evil committed by governments, at least those governments which they consider "theirs". And I do think that killing child molesters would be evil, unless they were also murderers. Justice consists in the payment of debts, and only those who have stolen a life can owe a life.

There are other things that can be done with sexual predators that would be just. But nothing that can be proposed will work as long as we have a "justice system" that punishes criminals at the expense of the victim and uninvolved parties (or "society" if you want). And that's not likely to happen either until only those who make victims are considered to be criminals. Every resource that goes to, for example, put a marijuana smoker in jail, is a resource that is failing to protect or restore the victim of an actual crime.

 

[Luther073082]

I go back and forth on it.

Emotionally I often feel that it is good because of the nature of some crimes and the unrepentant nature of the killers I often feel that the only justice would be to put someone to death. And sometimes I feel like more liberal use of it would be good. For example emotionally speaking when a guard is attacked or killed by an inmate at a prison. Perhaps said immate should be tried quickly, brought out to the prison courtyard and promptly killed via firing squad in full view of the entire prison. Attendence of this execution should be manditory for all prisoners. Perhaps we could have a similar penalty for those who killed an inmmate. And those who have attacked immates where the victim has lived, perhaps the guilty parties could receive a number of lashes with a whip, again in full view of the prison.

Logically though there are some things that bother me about it.

1. Is the always constant possibility of putting an innocent person to death. I can not conceive of a worse possible screw up for the justice system and/or the state then to put an innocent person to death.

2. To me the usage of the death penalty almost always feels more like vengence then justice. You killed someone so we're gonna kill you back. There is a fine line between justice and vengence and sometimes it just sounds to me more like vengence then justice.

3. It also bothers me that the executions are private and specifically done in a way to be "clean". I sort of agree with someone who said that Firing Squad was a far more appropriate way to put someone to death then lethal injection. (Which to me is really just Euthanizing someone.)

I don't belive in this idea of trying to make everything nice and clean. Death is a dirty business and the obcession with making everything clean removes the reality of what death is. Since we the citizens are ultimatly the people in charge of our own government we should know in the full realness of what death is before we make a decision. People should be forced to encounter the fullness of it. The dirtiness of putting someone to death, the agony and pain of those people related to the executed as well as the emotions of the victim's family and friends. Cleaning it up does no one any favors, and keeping it private makes it worse. We play this stupid, out of sight out of mind game with it. Thats how many abortion supporters are about it. They go and support abortion but are completly offended if the results are put in front of them. While capital punishment supporters are less likely to be offended by seeing the executions, even perhaps violent executions . . . the results of it all should be put in front of everyone so they can see for themselves. Not kept "out of sight, out of mind."

I should say as an act of temporal authority and to maintain temporal law and righteousness in the lands, the government does under the Christian faith have the right to put someone to death. I belive that is within their God given powers. (Doesn't necessarily mean I think its a good idea. But I belive the power of life and death is given to temporal authorities at times).

 

[overit]

I believe it should be abolished...it's a disgrace to me that most civilized and democratic nations have abolilshed it and yet we stand w/some of the most opressed and tyranical countries when it comes to capital punishment.

Use of capital punishment by nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ANother easy to see list
The Death Penalty Worldwide — Infoplease.com

Read that last one-see which countries still permit it-then tell me somehow that isn't messed up that we are still in that mix. It's an embarrasement.

 

[Sketcher]

I believe it should be abolished...it's a disgrace to me that most civilized and democratic nations have abolilshed it and yet we stand w/some of the most opressed and tyranical countries when it comes to capital punishment.

Use of capital punishment by nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ANother easy to see list
The Death Penalty Worldwide — Infoplease.com

Read that last one-see which countries still permit it-then tell me somehow that isn't messed up that we are still in that mix. It's an embarrasement.

Bandwagon fallacy. Besides, countries like Venezuela may not have the death penalty, but they'll just lock you in prison for 20 years when they know for a fact you won't survive 10 years. How is that "better?"

 

[overit]

Bandwagon fallacy. Besides, countries like Venezuela may not have the death penalty, but they'll just lock you in prison for 20 years when they know for a fact you won't survive 10 years. How is that "better?"

NOT a Bandwagon fallacy (heard that one before in regards to this) ....you're "example" is small....plus you're comparing Venezuela -ruled by Chavez at the moment.

I've found that most supporters are the ones that deny supporting theocracies but would actually prefer them....just like say Muslim countries that allow it have in practice now.
"
Contention 3: The Execution of Innocents

Usage of the death penalty runs the risk of executing innocents. 135 prisoners on death row were found to be innocent (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...). Courts generally do not continue to investigate cases in which the convicted criminal was already executed, so there is no telling how many innocent have been wrongly put to death. In 1987 a study by Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet found that at least 23 innocents had been wrongly executed (http://www.justicedenied.org...). This is too high a price to pay for a technique that is no more reliable than life imprisonment."

 

[Miles]

I’m against the death penalty because our judicial system makes mistakes. In my opinion, it isn’t worth the risk of possibly condemning an innocent person to death.

 

[Orange_County_Chopper]

I believe in the death penalty.

 

[Sketcher]

NOT a Bandwagon fallacy (heard that one before in regards to this)

How is it not a bandwagon fallacy?

"Every other democracy is doing it, so should we!"

....you're "example" is small....plus you're comparing Venezuela -ruled by Chavez at the moment.

My point is that Venezuela shouldn't be favorably compared to America when it comes to crime and punishment, because of what it does. Yet it's on this list of countries that are somehow considered as better than America in this regard. Apparently, it doesn't take very much to get on this shoddy list. Anti-death penalty people should not use this list as a basis for their argument.

I've found that most supporters are the ones that deny supporting theocracies but would actually prefer them....just like say Muslim countries that allow it have in practice now.

It sounds like you're talking to some weird people, because most American conservatives don't want theocracies. They do want justice to be done, quickly and effectively.

"
Contention 3: The Execution of Innocents

Usage of the death penalty runs the risk of executing innocents. 135 prisoners on death row were found to be innocent (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org...). Courts generally do not continue to investigate cases in which the convicted criminal was already executed, so there is no telling how many innocent have been wrongly put to death. In 1987 a study by Professors Hugo Bedau and Michael Radelet found that at least 23 innocents had been wrongly executed (http://www.justicedenied.org...). This is too high a price to pay for a technique that is no more reliable than life imprisonment."

This is the one good argument against the death penalty - and not because of the principle of the death penalty, but in how it is practiced. There should be no doubt as to a person's guilt before executing him, and the execution should be done quickly and cleanly (as per the 8th Amendment). Technology is getting better all the time, so I have no problem believing that more and more innocent people will get off as time goes on.

 

[overit]

How is it not a bandwagon fallacy?

"Every other democracy is doing it, so should we!"



My point is that Venezuela shouldn't be favorably compared to America when it comes to crime and punishment, because of what it does. Yet it's on this list of countries that are somehow considered as better than America in this regard. Apparently, it doesn't take very much to get on this shoddy list. Anti-death penalty people should not use this list as a basis for their argument.


It sounds like you're talking to some weird people, because most American conservatives don't want theocracies. They do want justice to be done, quickly and effectively.



This is the one good argument against the death penalty - and not because of the principle of the death penalty, but in how it is practiced. There should be no doubt as to a person's guilt before executing him, and the execution should be done quickly and cleanly (as per the 8th Amendment). Technology is getting better all the time, so I have no problem believing that more and more innocent people will get off as time goes on.

Oh goodness-this will be pointless---how many respected and good countries no longer practice-....ok, take a look at which countries DO still practice it and then tell me your thoughts.

 

[Sketcher]

Oh goodness-this will be pointless---how many respected and good countries no longer practice-....ok, take a look at which countries DO still practice it and then tell me your thoughts.

The United States of America - and I think we're pretty awesome. What other countries do with theirs doesn't matter so much as what we do with ours, and the big picture over here. I believe we're living proof of a good country that respects civil liberties and also has the death penalty. They're not at odds, you know. It's understandable that some countries, like the UK have such a bad history with the death penalty that they would seek to abolish it - but our Constitution was written based on lessons learned from what they did wrong in terms of trials and penalties. People over there were hung, drawn, and quartered after unfair trials. Our system is designed to give people fair trials, and if someone has done something deserving of death, it has to be quick and clean according to the Constitution. In other words, we just don't have their historical baggage with the death penalty.

 

[Luther073082]

This is the one good argument against the death penalty - and not because of the principle of the death penalty, but in how it is practiced. There should be no doubt as to a person's guilt before executing him, and the execution should be done quickly and cleanly (as per the 8th Amendment). Technology is getting better all the time, so I have no problem believing that more and more innocent people will get off as time goes on.

Quickly yes. . . Cleanly no.

If you ask me if we are going to have executions, I don't want them to be clean, and I definatly want them to be public.

People should be able to look directly at what they are doing, seeing very clearly that a man is being put to death.

This serves two functions. One is that it makes it more of a detterent and it also brings it home exactly what we are doing. Then we can make a decision based on that.

To me when someone decides to do something "Out of sight" it indicates to me that they are unwilling or do not want to confront the reality of what they are doing.

I find firing squad to actually be one of the most approrpriate means of execution. It should be done with good high quality color footage of the execution made immediatly available for people to watch. If you don't want to watch it, don't support the death penalty. If you watch it and are cool with that, then great be a death penalty supporter.

But don't support anything you can't bring yourself to watch.

*I would say long drop hanging would also be acceptable however hanging often causes a lot of mistakes.*

 

[indigo tree]

It should be used in only the most severe of cases. I kinda think more along the lines of what Miles was saying.