Can't tell a real conversion from a fake one

[Robert8102]

Hi. This is Bob8102. I forgot how to log on as Bob8102, so now I'm logging in as Robert8102. If you want to see what I've posted before, look at Bob8102.

I can't tell a real conversion to Christ from a fake one. I can think I'm sincerely looking for Christ, and even think I've sincerely given my life to Him. But then I can wonder, was that a fake, superficial conversion to Christ? Am I really still holding onto me? Am I really looking at me, not at Jesus?

Part of the problem is I have OCD. Christians with OCD keep doubting their salvation and never remain convinced God has forgiven them, for very long. But what if one not only has OCD, causing them to doubt their salvation, but they really are not actually saved, either? I've gone to Grantley Morris' website about this, and even exchanged a couple emails with him. He is convinced I just have excess anxiety. But I am wondering if I not only have excess anxiety, but also am not saved.

I can so sincerely and so intensely, and for so long, seek to give my life to Christ. And even have a convincing moment in which I really think I've finally given my life to Him. But one guy said to me (when I was Bob8102) that I am not trusting Christ for my salvation, but I'm trusting me. He said I am making my sincerity the key to my salvation. (This was a response to a post in which I wondered if, in my sincerest moments of giving my life to Christ, I am really still clinging to me at heart.) He said the key to my salvation is not me, but the Savior.

I've thought a lot, on and off, about that. Even Grantley Morris writes that preoccupation with oneself, even with one's spiritual condition, is deadly. He says we must wrench our eyes off of ourselves and put them on the Savior. So, I wonder if am in effect continually refusing to put my eyes on the Savior, instead of on myself.

Let me give you an example of my sincerity. On more than one occasion, I have thought the key is do what the apostle Paul did when he was converted to Christ. I don't mean to have recreated for me the special effects, but to follow Paul's lead in saying to Jesus, "What shall I do?" So, on these occasions, I try to intensely, sincerely, look up at Christ and say, "Jesus, when the apostle Paul surrendered to you, he said, 'Lord, what shall I do?'" And I try to have the same posture, the same attitude, as Paul did, while sincerely saying that, asking Jesus "What shall I do?" One of the times I did this, I was convinced I belonged to Christ for a few days afterward. But then the doubt always creeps in again, before long.

I'm not sure that my sincerest moments of "conversion" aren't still just superficial, with me really continuing to look at myself, instead of really looking at Christ.

Maybe I "can't" look at Christ. Maybe I don't know how to do it. Or, in any case, maybe I've never done it yet.

 

[Jeshu]

Hi. This is Bob8102. I forgot how to log on as Bob8102, so now I'm logging in as Robert8102. If you want to see what I've posted before, look at Bob8102.

I can't tell a real conversion to Christ from a fake one. I can think I'm sincerely looking for Christ, and even think I've sincerely given my life to Him. But then I can wonder, was that a fake, superficial conversion to Christ? Am I really still holding onto me? Am I really looking at me, not at Jesus?

Part of the problem is I have OCD. Christians with OCD keep doubting their salvation and never remain convinced God has forgiven them, for very long. But what if one not only has OCD, causing them to doubt their salvation, but they really are not actually saved, either? I've gone to Grantley Morris' website about this, and even exchanged a couple emails with him. He is convinced I just have excess anxiety. But I am wondering if I not only have excess anxiety, but also am not saved.

I can so sincerely and so intensely, and for so long, seek to give my life to Christ. And even have a convincing moment in which I really think I've finally given my life to Him. But one guy said to me (when I was Bob8102) that I am not trusting Christ for my salvation, but I'm trusting me. He said I am making my sincerity the key to my salvation. (This was a response to a post in which I wondered if, in my sincerest moments of giving my life to Christ, I am really still clinging to me at heart.) He said the key to my salvation is not me, but the Savior.

I've thought a lot, on and off, about that. Even Grantley Morris writes that preoccupation with oneself, even with one's spiritual condition, is deadly. He says we must wrench our eyes off of ourselves and put them on the Savior. So, I wonder if am in effect continually refusing to put my eyes on the Savior, instead of on myself.

Let me give you an example of my sincerity. On more than one occasion, I have thought the key is do what the apostle Paul did when he was converted to Christ. I don't mean to have recreated for me the special effects, but to follow Paul's lead in saying to Jesus, "What shall I do?" So, on these occasions, I try to intensely, sincerely, look up at Christ and say, "Jesus, when the apostle Paul surrendered to you, he said, 'Lord, what shall I do?'" And I try to have the same posture, the same attitude, as Paul did, while sincerely saying that, asking Jesus "What shall I do?" One of the times I did this, I was convinced I belonged to Christ for a few days afterward. But then the doubt always creeps in again, before long.

I'm not sure that my sincerest moments of "conversion" aren't still just superficial, with me really continuing to look at myself, instead of really looking at Christ.

Maybe I "can't" look at Christ. Maybe I don't know how to do it. Or, in any case, maybe I've never done it yet.

You know if and when you believe in Christ, then you have done it, you called on His name and have been saved in this part of your life in other parts where you don't have faith in Jesus yet it is about requiring it.

Honest it is not a one off moment, each day, multiple times i have to repent of my unbelief and put my trust in Him again. Often times calling out for salvation in the process. Being saved is not something to play around with, like doubt likes to do. Jesus would want to you to choose to heed Him and His loving truth instead of what doubt and unbelief have all to say.

So please don't despair your faith, don't wait for that magic moment so many boast about, it may come but then you doubt again so then it has to come again and again and again until all of your doubting self has been brought into the kingdom.

Please understand that having your reality in doubting God at His word then you are never going to go to heaven, we are saved from that, as well as fear we are condemned when we are saved.

Do know that faith in God's love requires trust in Jesus to work. Place your faith in Him and then keep on doing it each time doubt comes past place your faith in Him again and trust all is fine because of Him and what He has said and done. if you exercise faith a lot against your faithless self you will soon have faith in all your self. It is about growing in faith, love and hope.

Honest it is great to learn to trust Jesus, and i do understand this can be hard, especially when we believe lies about God, for lies hurt God, who is The Truth, and is cut of from our reality in lies, our spirit is taken over by spirituality that is not from Him. To bring ourselves like that back to Him is how we get freed from such realities, be they bad habits, addictions or plain wickedness. Jesus had to save me time and again from my sins.

It took me years to realise that only when i have faith in His love do i begin to grow into His Kingdom. Once i understood that though i have been able to move mountains - even getting away from my suicidal depression. Jesus is a great Master. i love Him to bits. i will never go from my own free will back to sin in those parts of my life were i learned to serve Him because He set me free. Sin is bad stuff that i want to be freed from. Not just some vague promise that when i die it will be okay, but really okay to be in Him and with Him, that is what it is all about. To fight sin is a life long battle and to be saved from it is an ongoing process. Daily we die to sin and daily we need to come alive in Christ.

To go to Jesus, in faith, when you are in wrongful spirituality and sharing Him your sinful life and thanking Him for grace and asking Him to teach you how to abstain from it, don't do it in your own strength, don't go and commit spiritual genocide but treasure yourself in Christ and with Christ and preach to yourself when you are in unfaithful mode. Tell yourself the truths of Christ, to understand that in this part of your life you still need faith in Jesus for you haven't got it.

Learn to love Jesus for His salvation instead of fear Him for His damnation. Each time you place your faith in God's love - Jesus Christ who paid your price - you are saved immediately, nothing more needs to happen. The awe comes when you begin to become aware of this process. For each time we come to him in repentant heart He hears us and washes us from our sins and sets us free.

The more grace you eat the more you will love Jesus, the more you love Jesus the more you will do His will and the freer you will be down here. Love for God Himself is your Father and your Brother in Spirit, please never forget that.

Peace.

An invitation to The Chosen.

God's Love will not take or will
you to conform to rules or demand
which imprison, enslave, burn or kill you.

God's Love will not pervert what's Good
The Lord loves truthfully Wise and Good.
True Love was, is and always will be Good!

In God's Love you are free to be right!
In His love everything is good proper and kind.
He loves all who love good and true to rule!

His Love is caring, providing, and sharing.
His Love always enjoys and protects good life.
His love rules even when bad life has being in us!

Hear Jesus call - 'Come join up with us all!
Leave whatever ties you down and be free
loving good life with all God's own to be.'

To the rest in your heart God's asks
how long will you tarry in the darkness?
Please leave such bad existence within.

For life must not, no never should, or would, or could,
be forceful, rude, prideful, arrogant, selfish, lustful
or otherwise be untrue to God's loving truth.

Neither should life be hurting or ill,
hungry, oppressed, despised, hated
or otherwise have existence in wrong.

Please hand your Bad Life over to Jesus
Humbly ask for His Good Life back in return
and go love God, self and neighbour with Joy.

The Church knows that Jesus is coming soon
All bad life will be our shameful past then,
so please leave your bad life while you can!

Love

 

[royal priest]

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless you are reprobate.
Paul tells us to examine ourselves. The key component to look for is the presence of Jesus in our lives. But we need to do this in perspective of our sinful condition. OCD can tempt us to look for perfection and to judge the even the smallest inconsistencies as a reason for doubt. But one of the evidences of Jesus working in us is not only a conviction of our sin, but the comfort of forgiveness and the encouragement to persevere. The Lord is gracious and full of mercy. He will not destroy the broken reed nor quench the smoking flax. Isaiah 42:3

 

[Lost4words]

Dont let the devil deceive you all the time.

Put all your trust in Jesus my friend. Concentrate on Jesus.

We lose many battles in life due to sin, and the devil but, evil will never win the war!

Be strong. Persevere in love of God.

God bless and protect you

 

[Radagast]

But then I can wonder, was that a fake, superficial conversion to Christ? Am I really still holding onto me? Am I really looking at me, not at Jesus?

Concentrate on thinking about what Jesus has done. Don't try to manufacture "positive feelings" in yourself; that is not how people are saved.

 

[com7fy8]

It says we "first trusted in Christ" (in Ephesians 1:12).

 

[ldonjohn]

You doubt your salvation because your faith is misplaced. You are looking at yourself for assurance. You are looking at the things you have done. You are concerned about your own sincerity. You will never find peace from within yourself.

Get your mind off of “you,” and focus on scriptures that tell what God did to redeem you back to Himself.

He did everything that He required to be done so that He can forgive your sin and make you righteous enough to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Actually, He declares you to be justified, to be forgiven, to be righteous; all because of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Your part is to repent & trust your eternity with the message of the cross; the Gospel message. Repent simply means to change your mind about yourself & God. Repent is seeing yourself as a helpless & hopeless sinner who needs a savior; IOW, seeing yourself as not able to do anything to make yourself righteous, and seeing God as your only hope; seeing Jesus as your sin bearer; seeing Jesus as the one who took your sin to the cross; seeing your sin nailed to the cross with Him and forgotten by God. That has to be your focus; that message is your assurance & your peace.

Forget about anything you have done. It is not how sincere you are or if you “really mean business with God.” It IS casting your hopeless, helpless self upon the Gospel message. If you are concerned enough about your sin to want God 's forgiveness based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, then that is all the sincerity that is needed for God to hear your plea.

The weakest faith is saving faith if the object of your faith is Jesus' death on the cross & His shed blood there for the forgiveness of you sin. Go to Him now with that plea. He says He will not reject anyone who comes to Him to receive His forgiveness. Call on Him now & believe He will do what He promised He will do, then leave the rest up to God. Instead of looking at yourself for assurance, you must look, read, God's Word, and in time you will find the peace you so desperately seek.

This that I have written is true in my own life's journey to find peace through genuine faith is Christ.

Suggest that you read a short sermon by Dr. John R. Rice, “How to Come to Jesus?”

Regards,

John

 

[Paul4JC]

He meets you where your at. Don't worry. If your have have faith in Christ based on the Gospels, you'll be fine. Don't split hairs as many do here. Keep it simple as God is so simple and yet so profound. Faith is easy. * God bless.

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. - Rom 10:17 ESV

35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you." 38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. - Jhn 9:35-38 ESV


*(I didn't know any Christians when I met Christ through John's Gospel, but that's another story.)

 

[Robert8102]

You doubt your salvation because your faith is misplaced. You are looking at yourself for assurance. You are looking at the things you have done. You are concerned about your own sincerity. You will never find peace from within yourself.

Get your mind off of “you,” and focus on scriptures that tell what God did to redeem you back to Himself.

He did everything that He required to be done so that He can forgive your sin and make you righteous enough to spend eternity in heaven with Him. Actually, He declares you to be justified, to be forgiven, to be righteous; all because of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Your part is to repent & trust your eternity with the message of the cross; the Gospel message. Repent simply means to change your mind about yourself & God. Repent is seeing yourself as a helpless & hopeless sinner who needs a savior; IOW, seeing yourself as not able to do anything to make yourself righteous, and seeing God as your only hope; seeing Jesus as your sin bearer; seeing Jesus as the one who took your sin to the cross; seeing your sin nailed to the cross with Him and forgotten by God. That has to be your focus; that message is your assurance & your peace.

Forget about anything you have done. It is not how sincere you are or if you “really mean business with God.” It IS casting your hopeless, helpless self upon the Gospel message. If you are concerned enough about your sin to want God 's forgiveness based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, then that is all the sincerity that is needed for God to hear your plea.

The weakest faith is saving faith if the object of your faith is Jesus' death on the cross & His shed blood there for the forgiveness of you sin. Go to Him now with that plea. He says He will not reject anyone who comes to Him to receive His forgiveness. Call on Him now & believe He will do what He promised He will do, then leave the rest up to God. Instead of looking at yourself for assurance, you must look, read, God's Word, and in time you will find the peace you so desperately seek.

This that I have written is true in my own life's journey to find peace through genuine faith is Christ.

Suggest that you read a short sermon by Dr. John R. Rice, “How to Come to Jesus?”

Regards,

John

 

[Robert8102]

I've read what you and everyone else has written. You must be the one who told me earlier that I am not trusting Christ for my salvation, but myself. I read (again and again) John R. Rice' sermon on How to Come to Jesus.

Apparently, I still don't get it. I keep thinking I've become a Christian, then figuring I haven't really turned my life over to God. On the "my sincerity" matter, i've tried just about everything. For example, I recently tried going over Jesus statement in Revelation, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and sup with him and he with Me." I try to really "get" the concept of Christ knocking at the door, then try to understand myself to be opening the door. But, like with all my other attempts to come to Jesus, I soon afterward figure that it was not for real.

I realize that I might not be looking at Christ, but continuing to look at me. To not truly surrender to Christ, but to go through a pantomime of doing so, while really clinging to myself. It's like I have decided in my heart of hearts that Self must be defended and clung to at all costs. It seems like I "cannot" break the hold of Me, Myself, and I. I ask for prayer.

 

[Robert8102]

Every time I start to take an approach that I've taken before, such as concentrating on "I stand at the door and knock, etc.," or saying I am now going to trust and surrender to Christ the way Paul did when he was converted, saying "Lord, what should I do?", I then quickly remember that I've tried this approach before, and it didn't work. It always ends up with me in the same place: I think I have not yet truly surrendered and become His.

 

[ChristServant]

Hi. This is Bob8102. I forgot how to log on as Bob8102, so now I'm logging in as Robert8102. If you want to see what I've posted before, look at Bob8102.

I can't tell a real conversion to Christ from a fake one. I can think I'm sincerely looking for Christ, and even think I've sincerely given my life to Him. But then I can wonder, was that a fake, superficial conversion to Christ? Am I really still holding onto me? Am I really looking at me, not at Jesus?

I believe you can know a real conversion from a fake one by the way you think and by your behaviour. Manifesting fruits of the Spirit is a clear sign, a change of heart and mind. This is not instant mind you, in my experience but changes do start happening. Before when I use to do sinful things I wasn't bothered by them by after coming to GOD I definitely was and am. If I fall short I feel really bad.

I think of the refining fire and that we are being sanctified as scripture tells me. Scripture also suggest from my understanding that it's not instant but a gradual process, once you truly repent of sin and place your faith in Christ, then the Holy Spirit will start working in you.

Don't forget though, you will make mistakes and have slip ups along the way but do not let them distract you or take you from the path, just get on your knees, repent of the sin committed and ask for forgiveness as soon as possible.

Hope this helps

Peace be to all those in the body of Christ

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.

 

[ChristServant]

Hope this helps

Peace be to all those in the body of Christ

We no longer look to be served. We look to serve and give our lives for others. No longer fight for privilege, influence and status. We esteem others better than ourselves and put their interests above our own.
[/QUOTE]

 

[Lukaris]

Just live your life giving thanks to God as best you can in a troubled world. The Lord calls us to be charitable & pray for others ( Matthew 6:1-15). The Lord calls us to keep His commandments ( John 14:15-18), ( Matthew 19:16-19), (Romans 13:8-10) etc. He understands our struggle ( John 16:33).