cant talk to parents about military and me

Truffle

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For about 4 months I have been thinking of seeing a recruiter in school next year and my mom and dad are freaking out. they just stare at me and eachother and where is my support? how can i bring this up to them without upsetting them> maybe with a recruiter? i want to join the Air Force.. pray for me. i tried again tonight and my mom said "stop..just stop and finish school.."
i have an opinion and nobody wants to hear it
 

BobW188

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I know the feeling. I heard that "Stay in school" thing until I was sick of it. Would've skipped the graduation ceremony if I could have. But, fact is, the recruiter will tell you the same thing. In my day, I once wrote to Headquarters Marine Corps for some book covers, and received not only them but a letter from a Captain on the Commandant's staff saying that he - the Commandant - had "expressed the hope" that I finish high school.
Fact is, you can't sign up without parental consent until you're 18, and it really will benefit you to go in with that diploma, especially if you're considering a career. Also, that diploma gives you the option of applying at colleges that have AFROTC programs; and there's a lot to be said for going in as an officer. In fact, pilot and navigator training are offered only to officers.
For now, I'd just talk to the recruiter about the various career fields that might interest you. Keep it general, learn all about what you're getting into.
 
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keith99

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I know the feeling. I heard that "Stay in school" thing until I was sick of it. Would've skipped the graduation ceremony if I could have. But, fact is, the recruiter will tell you the same thing. In my day, I once wrote to Headquarters Marine Corps for some book covers, and received not only them but a letter from a Captain on the Commandant's staff saying that he - the Commandant - had "expressed the hope" that I finish high school.
Fact is, you can't sign up without parental consent until you're 18, and it really will benefit you to go in with that diploma, especially if you're considering a career. Also, that diploma gives you the option of applying at colleges that have AFROTC programs; and there's a lot to be said for going in as an officer. In fact, pilot and navigator training are offered only to officers.
For now, I'd just talk to the recruiter about the various career fields that might interest you. Keep it general, learn all about what you're getting into.

My social position, and technically my very existance is based on my father discovering the compliment of what you describe. He was a machinists mate in WW II. High School and honestly seems to have been a bit of a screwup. He learned one thing very very clearly in the military. Officers get the good end of everything, enlisted get the opposite. He as many others also figured out that the difference in the military and often in hte rest of life often depended on one thing, education, often expressed as a diploma.
 
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taku60

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I know the feeling. I heard that "Stay in school" thing until I was sick of it. Would've skipped the graduation ceremony if I could have. But, fact is, the recruiter will tell you the same thing. In my day, I once wrote to Headquarters Marine Corps for some book covers, and received not only them but a letter from a Captain on the Commandant's staff saying that he - the Commandant - had "expressed the hope" that I finish high school.
Fact is, you can't sign up without parental consent until you're 18, and it really will benefit you to go in with that diploma, especially if you're considering a career. Also, that diploma gives you the option of applying at colleges that have AFROTC programs; and there's a lot to be said for going in as an officer. In fact, pilot and navigator training are offered only to officers.
For now, I'd just talk to the recruiter about the various career fields that might interest you. Keep it general, learn all about what you're getting into.

And even with a degree in engineering from one of the best engineering schools in the nation is no gaurentee of a pilot slot, so if you want to fly you have to have super human qualifications (engineering/hard science degree from a well known program, high AFOQT scores, peak physical fitness, NO medical issues what so ever, wild card req letters ie your uncle is a 4 star general and likes you) and that just gets your name in the hat and even if your name is drawn it goes into a new hat to determine what you will fly (by the time you win the first lottery if you loose the second lottery you are already in the military so you will fly what they tell you to fly and thats all there is to it unless you go to careful measure to get out without it giving you a negitive discharge type which is really hard). So you have to have super human quals and win the lottery twice then you can fly F-16's then if you want to fly for the thunder birds or fly raptors you have to win a thrid lottery (I dont know anything about the 3rd lottery becasue I did not make it into fighter school or past the first lottery but my research extended to the second lottery I even got to go up in a T-38 as part of AFROTC which is part of ENJPT). These lotterys are only loosly based on quals because to get your name in the hat you have to have the same quals as the others with their names in the hat so its generally some nebulus quality the commander is looking for which is what makes it a lottery (maybe you were in some society or fraternity that the commander was so that gives you the sliver of an edge you need to keep from going in the trash, who knows).

I always look at it as if you shoot for the moon and miss at least you are amoungst the stars, I came out of that experience with an engineering degree, good physical health and make really good money so I cant complain to much and am looking to buy an acrobatic plane so I can still continue to follow my dreams so now the only thing that separates me from my dream is $$$ but the engineering degree helps that quite a bit.

At this point you should graduate with an awesome GPA, and high SAT scores, apply for a congressional nomination and apply for the air force academy I did not get in but you could. Join a sport that the air force academy is looking for and get good at it the academys are big sports schools (even though they always loose lol). Being good at a sport is a nebulus requirement I learned from talking to them on the phone after I was already a senior such is life. If you can get into the academy you have the best chance to fly but the first day of your 3rd year you are commited so if for some reason you dont graduate you go in as an E-4 (lame sauce) if you go AFROTC you also have to commit the start of your 3rd year but its alot harder for them to hold you to anything especially if they are not paying for your education, I know 3 people that got out as seniors because they were not in debt to the air force. The last option is OTS which is the most direct way to get your name in the hat but also the hardest your in the best negotiationg position becasue you already have your degree in hand and the military does not like it when others are in positions of strength they like something closer to indentured servitude so OTS you will only get in if they have carrer fields they are severly short on like board certified nurses (RN's), lawyers or doctors, these carrer fields usually even get to skip the abusive training and get direct commisions but you will never sit in a F-15 as a doctor in the military. You can do OTS as a pilot but its the less likely route and was my last ditch effort to fly, as someone who already has their degree in hand im less willing to accept vague contracts because I have already dotted my i's and crossed my t's I want something in stone and the military wants indentured servants.

The reason your parents are apprehensive is becasue most people get burned in the military, they need 0.0001% to do cool things like fly and 99.9999% to do grunt work in support of the rock stars. Even going in as an officer is like making a deal with the devil because the contracts are vague, they may "do what they can" but at the end of the day even as an officer they can put you as security forces or in a control tower, you have limited control of your carrer in the military unless they have made the contracts more specific (which I highly doubt), enlisted contracts are more specific but thats only becasue there are no rock star enlisted positions all enlisted work is grunt work so they can afford to make them a little more specific but even then if you are a UAV operator they HAVE pulled soft skill MOS's to do pull security in iraq with army infantry, I bet thoes guys/girls were pretty disenfranchised after that little fiasco.

Did I also mention you have to do all this before your 27th birthday to be competitive preferably by the time you are 25. Thats a pretty tall order.

This is why I am asking about others who fly acrobatics with specific emphisis on thoes that own their own planes because alot of people fly but not many fly something they own and since I dont have any opprotunities to fly someone elses plane I have to buy my own so figuring out how they got the money is just as important if not more important than the various aspects of flying itself.
 
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Teufelhund

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There is no way to bring it up without upsetting them. Finish high school. Once you are closer let your parents know that you will be joining if that is still your intention, and let them know that there is nothing they can do to change your mind. Then they will support you or they won't. If they don't, you have to either have the conviction to join or not. But it is and should not be your parents decision. However they are right in saying that you should finish school.
 
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Truffle

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Love you guys :) i am crying. i got great advice here and it makes sense and helps me see what i will and can do in this situation which i thought was a no win ao i am going to get that 4.0 and apply for the Airforce Academy

and i did not even think anyone would reply......:*)
 
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BobW188

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Keep your college options open! The service academies are highly selective. In fact, most of the selectees are nominated by their Representative or Senator and, if memory serves, each can only nominate one person. The academies are very rigorous, with very high washout rates, especially in the first, "plebe" year.

Most career military officers in fact come from ROTC programs.

Also, if your goal is to be an aviator, keep in mind that all the armed forces, including the Coast Guard, have aviation components; though they are all very selective. Since you have a couple of years to wait, talk to all the recruiters. Each service has its advantages and disadvantages. Your 3.8 should make you competitive for any commissioning program; but you're well advised to do a few more things.

1/ Get and stay in top-notch physical condition. The services are looking for that; and all military training places a premium on it.

2/ Stay out of trouble. Any police record is going to hurt your chances for a good career field, and probably knock you out of anu commissioning program.

3/ Get into the habit of always showing respect to those in authority and obeying their orders promptly and thoroughly. I'm not suggesting you salute your parents and teachers; but remember the old military custom that when the commander says "I wish" or "I desire," what follows has the effect of an order.

4/ Develop a high tolerance for BS. Wherever you serve and at whatever rank, you'll find no shortage of it. Especially in your initial training, you're going to meet men and women who make your parents - at their worst - look like pussycats.
 
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BobW188

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A point worth driving home.

Keep in mind that joining any armed force puts you at risk of death or disability. Congress can talk all it wants about whether or not women will be put in direct combat spots; but the enemy - whoever it may be - isn't paying attention to Congress. There were female KIAs in World War Two, there are women's names on the Vietnam wall, and there were female casualties and POWs in both Iraq wars.

Right now, the Army and Marine Corps seem to be bearing the brunt of the fighting; but war can change fast.

There are simply no guarantees.
 
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azmurath

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Love you guys :) i am crying. i got great advice here and it makes sense and helps me see what i will and can do in this situation which i thought was a no win ao i am going to get that 4.0 and apply for the Airforce Academy

and i did not even think anyone would reply......:*)


You can't just "apply" for the academy, you have to be recommended by a senator. Write your senators, tell them why you want to go to the academy, and start working on volunteering, military knowledge and physical training. The academy takes only two people from each state per year, so good luck. If you want to enlist, you cannot join the Air Force without a HS diploma, so finish school. They won't even look at you if you have a GED, you NEED that diploma, and even then, we are not actively recruiting, so you need to prepare yourself for the ASVAB and do well on it.
 
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taku60

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You can't just "apply" for the academy, you have to be recommended by a senator. Write your senators, tell them why you want to go to the academy, and start working on volunteering, military knowledge and physical training. The academy takes only two people from each state per year, so good luck. If you want to enlist, you cannot join the Air Force without a HS diploma, so finish school. They won't even look at you if you have a GED, you NEED that diploma, and even then, we are not actively recruiting, so you need to prepare yourself for the ASVAB and do well on it.

For me getting the congressional nomination was not a big deal, of course thats because I live in Alaska and I guess the year I graduated was a low application year to the AFA, my SAT scores kept me out but they did make a profound statement that had I been a foot ball player and resonabley decent they would have waved the SAT scores but I was a senior and it was to late. As far as volunteering thats not as big of a deal as GPA, SAT's and congerssional nominations and sports.

Also as something another poster pointed out, you MUST have a tolerance for alot of BS, this is an inconsistant character trait of one who is intellegent and an engineer, especially when you know you are smarter and better than the E5 who is doling out the BS, this may be why the military does not like thoes with a degree already in hand because im not going to put up with your crap im an engineer after all. They have shows on the AFA you can get from discovery that show as best they can the real life of an AFA cadet, im sure they tune down the hazing for the cameras but it gives you an idea.

I am glad the other poster brought that up, dealing with BS is probably the single biggest challenge in the military and it the main reason I did not continue in it because even as a pilot you will be subjected to it quite a bit.

Always remember if you shoot for the moon and miss at least you are among the stars. Having an engineering degree, good health and some cash is not a bad way to start life.
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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And even with a degree in engineering from one of the best engineering schools in the nation is no gaurentee of a pilot slot, so if you want to fly you have to have super human qualifications (engineering/hard science degree from a well known program, high AFOQT scores, peak physical fitness, NO medical issues what so ever, wild card req letters ie your uncle is a 4 star general and likes you) and that just gets your name in the hat and even if your name is drawn it goes into a new hat to determine what you will fly (by the time you win the first lottery if you loose the second lottery you are already in the military so you will fly what they tell you to fly and thats all there is to it unless you go to careful measure to get out without it giving you a negitive discharge type which is really hard). So you have to have super human quals and win the lottery twice then you can fly F-16's then if you want to fly for the thunder birds or fly raptors you have to win a thrid lottery (I dont know anything about the 3rd lottery becasue I did not make it into fighter school or past the first lottery but my research extended to the second lottery I even got to go up in a T-38 as part of AFROTC which is part of ENJPT).

You are more than exaggerating. If one is on fighter track, that is not by lottery but hard work, so they pick -15s or -16s, they have say in that too at times. We do OML in the Army flight training, and we pick what aircraft we want to fly. It is indeed challenging in the AF as only 1-2 guys go fighters out of a 30 some class, but that hardly means they do that because they are "engineers" it is mostly IP discretion before your grades. So you never made it to UPT, is that why are so critical? I never made it either, but I didn't quit. No I am not a super-human, didn't have a chance to do all that before 25 (which is a very true point), but if I have had the chance, the only thing that would have prevented me from going any further would have been a g-loc, not any lotteries... I recommend you read the book called "Eye of the Viper".
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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People in the military are currently getting blown up and shot at in several undeclared wars which have no clear objectives or end in sight. If you were my child and I cared about you at all I would be concerned if you wanted to enlist.

If everyone said that, then who would stop those bombings? Who would prevent a bomb go off next door to you? Someone's child right? Pity on them I guess. One should be proud!
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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This is why I am asking about others who fly acrobatics with specific emphisis on thoes that own their own planes because alot of people fly but not many fly something they own and since I dont have any opprotunities to fly someone elses plane I have to buy my own so figuring out how they got the money is just as important if not more important than the various aspects of flying itself.

I don't know what your story is but you are doing a lot of complaining. Tell me your stats and let's see if there is way for you to fly in the military. No offense but with some of the spelling, you would never make anywhere past an application for commission. How old are you?
 
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AirForceTeacher

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You can't just "apply" for the academy, you have to be recommended by a senator. Write your senators, tell them why you want to go to the academy, and start working on volunteering, military knowledge and physical training. The academy takes only two people from each state per year, so good luck. If you want to enlist, you cannot join the Air Force without a HS diploma, so finish school. They won't even look at you if you have a GED, you NEED that diploma, and even then, we are not actively recruiting, so you need to prepare yourself for the ASVAB and do well on it.

Late to the party, but one thing you'll need for any application or request for support from a senator/congressman will be knowing and being able to explain WHY you want to join the military and why you'll make a good officer. Know this answer, because you need to know it to be a good officer anyway.
 
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pepper1

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You are more than exaggerating. If one is on fighter track, that is not by lottery but hard work, so they pick -15s or -16s, they have say in that too at times. We do OML in the Army flight training, and we pick what aircraft we want to fly. It is indeed challenging in the AF as only 1-2 guys go fighters out of a 30 some class, but that hardly means they do that because they are "engineers" it is mostly IP discretion before your grades. So you never made it to UPT, is that why are so critical? I never made it either, but I didn't quit. No I am not a super-human, didn't have a chance to do all that before 25 (which is a very true point), but if I have had the chance, the only thing that would have prevented me from going any further would have been a g-loc, not any lotteries... I recommend you read the book called "Eye of the Viper".

I dont think this is an exageration either, I will ask you this does the AF write contracts for pilot slots? I agree its alot of hard work but when the rubber meets the road it is a sort of lottery when it comes right down to getting a pilot slot vs some other officer carrier field. Basicly you have to commit to the military before knowing you are going to fly and you have no reasonable gaurentee that you will even get a pilot slot until after you graduate AFA/ROTC, you may be able to get a pilot contract through OTS but im guessing that is highly unlikely. It boils down to a commanders decision because there are alot of people with your same quals, there is also an element of luck there as well, and you do have to be under 27 to be considered competitive, thats all in the paper work.
 
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AirForceTeacher

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I dont think this is an exageration either, I will ask you this does the AF write contracts for pilot slots? I agree its alot of hard work but when the rubber meets the road it is a sort of lottery when it comes right down to getting a pilot slot vs some other officer carrier field. Basicly you have to commit to the military before knowing you are going to fly and you have no reasonable gaurentee that you will even get a pilot slot until after you graduate AFA/ROTC, you may be able to get a pilot contract through OTS but im guessing that is highly unlikely. It boils down to a commanders decision because there are alot of people with your same quals, there is also an element of luck there as well, and you do have to be under 27 to be considered competitive, thats all in the paper work.

OTS Officer Trainees are selected into pilot slots before they start training. Everyone I was in OTS with had their job already, regardless of career field.
 
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pepper1

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OTS Officer Trainees are selected into pilot slots before they start training. Everyone I was in OTS with had their job already, regardless of career field.

So OTS must be the one exception, im guessing it would be much harder to get a pilot slot through OTS than through the AFA, especially for fighters, probably not impossible but at least you will not be locked into the military without a job writen into your contract.
 
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