Canaan

[Ruhama]

Ok. So this is a question primarily for the liberals and moderates out there (but anyone who wants to, feel free to jump in).

How do you explain to yourself what exactly God was doing when he commanded the Israelites to go kill the Canaanites?

This is kind of an apologetics question but I'm putting it here b/c I wanted to see what spin you all would take on it.

How is commanding people to go kill babies OK? How do you defend God on this count?

 

[Ruhama]

ok... I guess this has been a hot topic elsewhere, my bad.

Still - this is the place for unorthodox ideas so I am interested to hear your views.

 

[Doctrine1st]

Ok. So this is a question primarily for the liberals and moderates out there (but anyone who wants to, feel free to jump in).

How do you explain to yourself what exactly God was doing when he commanded the Israelites to go kill the Canaanites?

This is kind of an apologetics question but I'm putting it here b/c I wanted to see what spin you all would take on it.

How is commanding people to go kill babies OK? How do you defend God on this count?

Like the Exodus itself, from what I understand there is no archealogical evidence that this event even occured.

D1st

 

[ukok]

oh I was just about to post a response to the original question but it looks like it's been done already elsewhere...

 

[Ruhama]

where else? I'm not finding it. Thought I did but the one I saw was like a year old... go figure.

 

[Doctrine1st]

So let's see... what kind of evidence could exist for the Exodus? How can there be archaeological evidence of the Red Sea parting? Of the Passover?

How about the formation of the tribes of Israel... is that not sufficient? I mean, come on, how are you going to find archaeological evidence for the Exodus?
Does not mean it did not happen.
Just look at Israel today... that should be enough proof of the Exodus.
The Jews are the most persecuted people in History with more attempts to be annhilated than any other people group. And they are still alive today.
That my friend is proof enough of the Exodus.

One would think that if someone were enslaved in a country for some 350 years there would be some kind of evidence that they were actually there. Moreover, there is also no evidence of this massage exodus of millions in the cultures they would have obviously had contact with during the exodus. And BTW, the conquest of the Canaanites, no evidence for that either.

 

[ukok]

ok, I "figure" (if by that you mean, "work it out"), that you are in need of a response on this thread.

I misread your original post thinking that you had found a similar thread elsewhere when you said "ok, this has been a hot topic elsewhere".

I apologise for the misunderstanding.. I will respond later to your original question. School run due v. soon!

 

[nephilimiyr]

So what do you guys want to do here? Argue about the pyramids, slave labor, Exodus evidence or the slaughter of the Nephilim?

It's strange how one question can bring about so many topics and in only 9 posts!

So which is it?

 

[Doctrine1st]

Pyramids.
The Jews built the pyramids as slave laborers for the Egyptians. And yes there is proof of this.

Well this ought to be interesting. Ok, let's hear it.

From what I understand the pyramids were built around 2300-2500 BCE which would put it around the same time as the mythical flood and some 800 years before the "exodus?"

D1st

 

[Blackhawk]

One would think that if someone were enslaved in a country for some 350 years there would be some kind of evidence that they were actually there. Moreover, there is also no evidence of this massage exodus of millions in the cultures they would have obviously had contact with during the exodus. And BTW, the conquest of the Canaanites, no evidence for that either.

hmm I would have to look things up but I am almost positive that they have found evidence that the jews were in Egypt. Again I will have to look it up but I think in fact I saw a discovery channel special about it last year and they had archeologist on there stating that they had found some evidence. I will go and see what I can find.

 

[nephilimiyr]

All of the stories in the bible are connected in one way or the other. If you don't believe in a great flood or believe that the Jews were once slaves of Egypt how can you possibly believe in an order from God to commit genicide. I don't believe that we are suppose to pick and chose what we believe in the bible.

In other words you can't say you believe God gave the order for Israelites to commit genicide but on the other side say you don't believe in a great flood or that the Israelites were in Egypt. Now your free to do so if you want but this is not how the bible works. This shows a prejudice upon the person who only seems to want to make a case against God as committing evil. This will also render any and all arguements by that person as moot.

The flood was sent as a judgment from God upon the nephilim. After the flood and while the Israelites were in Egypt the nephilim returned to the land of Canaan. In order for the Israelites to claim the land God had given them they had to destroy the nephilim.

The nephilim are the evil offspring of fallen angels and human women. This makes them not human but a special hybrid, an evil hybrid that whenever they were found they were to be destroyed. The killing of these beings are not to be compared to regular humans. It is believed by many Hebrew scholars that the disembodied spirits of the nephilim are the demons and evil spirits talked about and shown in the New Testament.

Here's a thought for all of you to ponder. If you want to make such a big deal of God ordering Joshua and the Israelite armies to commit genicide upon the canaanite people why not start with the flood. Here God destroyed all living things including millions of women and children. The number who died in the flood was many times greater than what Joshua and his armies ever killed.

 

[Doctrine1st]

hmm I would have to look things up but I am almost positive that they have found evidence that the jews were in Egypt. Again I will have to look it up but I think in fact I saw a discovery channel special about it last year and they had archeologist on there stating that they had found some evidence. I will go and see what I can find.

I think the only slight bit of mention of Israel was in the Egyptian Merneptah Stela that mentions Israel exactly once and whether it really the hieroglyph is being translated correctly in its single mention.

But look at it this way, it would be as if all African Americans exodused back to Africa through Canada without leaving one bit of archealogical evidence that they were ever here in America, or traveled through Canada at all.

D1st

 

[Doctrine1st]

All of the stories in the bible are connected in one way or the other. If you don't believe in a great flood or believe that the Jews were once slaves of Egypt how can you possibly believe in an order from God to commit genicide. I don't believe that we are suppose to pick and chose what we believe in the bible.

In other words you can't say you believe God gave the order for Israelites to commit genicide but on the other side say you don't believe in a great flood or that the Israelites were in Egypt. Now your free to do so if you want but this is not how the bible works. This shows a prejudice upon the person who only seems to want to make a case against God as committing evil. This will also render any and all arguements by that person as moot.

The flood was sent as a judgment from God upon the nephilim. After the flood and while the Israelites were in Egypt the nephilim returned to the land of Canaan. In order for the Israelites to claim the land God had given them they had to destroy the nephilim.

The nephilim are the evil offspring of fallen angels and human women. This makes them not human but a special hybrid, an evil hybrid that whenever they were found they were to be destroyed. The killing of these beings are not to be compared to regular humans. It is believed by many Hebrew scholars that the disembodied spirits of the nephilim are the demons and evil spirits talked about and shown in the New Testament.

Here's a thought for all of you to ponder. If you want to make such a big deal of God ordering Joshua and the Israelite armies to commit genicide upon the canaanite people why not start with the flood. Here God destroyed all living things including millions of women and children. The number who died in the flood was many times greater than what Joshua and his armies ever killed.

Personally, I feel given the archealogical evidence for pre-existing flood accounts, and the lack archealogical evidence for the exodus and Palestine conquest, all that you have mention seems more tradition than history.

D1st

 

[Doctrine1st]

The beautiful thing about evidence is it doesn't involve feeling

Sure it does, jurys listen to evidence everyday, and given the evidence, they develop a feeling or sense if someone is guilty or innocent. Given the evidence on this matter, this is how I feel. Maybe you can provide something contrary?

Whether we think it feels like tradition or not, there has been much "evidence" given... now I am awaiting proof that the evidence we have given you is somehow irrelevant or invalid.

Er...excuse me, nobody has given me any evidence. You have made the assertion that the Jews built the pyramids, and I asked for your evidence, while I have given Blackhawk the evidence he was looking for in regards to the exodus (I think).

D1st

 

[nephilimiyr]

Well all I can say is that if I'm on trial and my life depended upon it I hope and pray the jury bases their decision on the weight of the evidence...LOL, that is if I'm innocent, if I'm guilty I hope they feel, feel, feel away!

 

[Lanakila]

The fact that the Jews worshipped the Golden Calf and other Egyptian gods, is pretty strong evidence that at least some of them were in Egypt. Archeologist have found some evidence, but not very complete, or even convincing for the die hard sceptic. Biblical Archeology review has some of this evidence, if you are really wanting to know, do some research and get back with us.

 

[Doctrine1st]

The fact that the Jews worshipped the Golden Calf and other Egyptian gods, is pretty strong evidence that at least some of them were in Egypt. Archeologist have found some evidence, but not very complete, or even convincing for the die hard sceptic. Biblical Archeology review has some of this evidence, if you are really wanting to know, do some research and get back with us.

Hmmm....I would be inclined to think that the golden bull was of influence from the Canaanites as evidenced by the Israelites use of "El" and "the most highest" for God as with the Canaanites. Although they all felt free to impose upon each others ideals.

D1st

 

[Ruhama]

interesting. Well this thread certainly went a direction I didn't expect, hehe

Ok well I know of no evidence for the exodus, though on that argument the slaughter of the canaanites never happened either.

I don't go for the nephilim argument simply because they were "around" before the flood not after. I also tend to see it more as a metaphor for the "marriage" of evil (spirits) with humanity, causing suffering, but also powerful individuals.

 

[Talmid HaYarok]

What kind of "evidence" are you looking for that a semi-nomadic group of tribes wandered the Sinai desert for the archaelogical short duration of 40 years? Anything they left behind would have probably been either disposables, or Egyptian artifacts. Egyptian artifacts which if found would never be connected with Israelites anyways.

Just wondering what you're looking for and what any of this has to do with Canaan genocide.

 

[Ruhama]

I tend to agree with that one on the slavery count as well. How would the israelite slave class be any different from other egyptian slaves? I doubt there would be much archaological evidence to be expected there either.