Can you really get to heaven without works????

[Uphill Battle]

Yup

then without a doubt, that is not Pelagianism.

I've noticed that time and time again, you and others are rabid to attatch an ISM to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Do you feel it gives more credebility to your arguments if you can pack your debate opponents in a neat box and label it?

 

[Fireinfolding]

I notice the same when thats done to others

I agree with your observation Uphill

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[PaladinValer]

We attach it when it is true.

Disagree all you wish.

 

[holo]

Do you believe that in the end everyone will be saved?

No.

Didn't you just say repenting is something man does?

Yes. It's a choice (not a work). Repentance is to lay down your own and receive God's.

 

[holo]

Why don't you look the word up instead of resulting to childish remarks?

I think it would be bettter if you told me straight up what you mean, rather than just labeling me with some weird theological term.

 

[holo]

If I must, although I'm sure you have a pat answer stored up.

Pelagianism is a theological theory named after Pelagius. It is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature (which, being created from God, was divine), and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without Divine aid. Thus, Adam's sin was "to set a bad example" for his progeny, but his actions did not have the other consequences imputed to Original Sin. Pelagianism views the role of Jesus as "setting a good example" for the rest of humanity (thus counteracting Adam's bad example). In short, humanity has full control, and thus full responsibility, for its own salvation in addition to full responsibility for every sin (the latter insisted upon by both proponents and opponents of Pelagianism). According to Pelagian doctrine, since humanity is no longer in need of any of God's graces beyond the creation of will,[1] Jesus' sacrifice is devoid of its redemptive quality.

No repentence is Pelagianism, Uphill.

If any of these definitions are correct, I don't subscribe to pelagianism at all.

 

[Uphill Battle]

We attach it when it is true.

Disagree all you wish.

whatever makes you feel big and important, I guess.

 

[ticker]

The only solution is to simply be sorry for all your forgotten sins, promise not to do them again, confess that you had a sinful past, and live as much a holy life as you can.

Hello Paladin

The good news is that you actually don’t have to do this constant repentance. You are forever forgiven for all your sins…it’s great! All you need to do is fall in love with the gift of Christ you received when you were born again in Him…...and as you do this, you’ll find that you won’t be trying to live a Holy life…you will be living a Holy life, as a reaction to the love you feel from God’s gift of grace to you (the righteousness in Christ!).

So, repentence is nowhere in the gospel???

Hey there Yekcidmij. Nice to meet you. I'm ticker.


Repentance is in the gospel…and you repent when you are saved.

When I repented, I asked to live by His way, and not my way…and what I got from God in that moment was His way alright…the gift of Jesus! And now that I‘ve “asked for it”, it’s something that I’ll never be able to separate myself from...I’m screwed! It’ll always be His way.

Now if I sin or mess up or whatever, it’s not about rededicating myself to try harder, or going to God and saying “Oh please forgive me…I’m never gonna do that again…I promise I’ll try harder and be more Holy next time“……it‘s not that at all. We have the gift of grace to live by.

We aren’t meant to try harder to live for God, we’re meant to trust and allow His Son to live for us…that’s why He gave Him to us…because He knew we couldn’t do it ourselves.

No matter how hard we try not to sin, or how hard we try to be Holy…we’re always gonna fall flat on our face. The only way we will overcome the bondage to sin is by trusting who we are in Christ (that we are righteous, that we are forgiven, and that we are reborn with a new identity in Jesus).

As we accept this truth and start allowing Jesus to be Himself through us (by giving up our own control), then we grow to act more and more like who we really are......Him ('cause He is our identity)....and realise that there’s no need to rededicate ourselves to becoming something that we already are…or to ask for the forgiveness that we already have. We become Holy by trusting in the truth…and that sets us free.

I hope that gives you some sutff to think about.


Blessings

 

[Mick116]

I don't think you can. I think faith alone can not save you.

Can you get to heaven without good works?

It depends on the length of your journey from conversion to death.

 

[PaladinValer]

Hello Paladin

The good news is that you actually don’t have to do this constant repentance. You are forever forgiven for all your sins…it’s great!

Sorry, but that's pop theology, not orthodoxy. I must therefore reject it.

 

[ticker]

Sorry, but that's pop theology, not orthodoxy. I must therefore reject it.

Hey there Paladin.

I've actually never considered it to be either of those...(life lived by a theology or a denomination)...I just consider it to be Christianity...(life lived by Christ).

I was actually born Greek Orthodox and have been going to Eastern Orthodx churches all my life. I loooove the church processions (well paced, meditative, and almost trance-like), but there's too much dependance on religion (and man-made tradition) that still permeates the denomination and stifles the efforts Christ wants to make through me (because I'll be too busy trying to make those efforts myself).

As you wish though...and thanks for reading.

God bless

 

[PaladinValer]

Sorry, but your idea is not found in the Early Church. I therefore cannot believe it nor think it orthodox.

 

[EraseTheHate]

It takes faith and repentance to go to heaven.

 

[ticker]

Sorry, but your idea is not found in the Early Church.

Yep...and that's the very thing though...not a whole lota Christians know what's found in the early church.

Do you really think our salvation depends on scholarly knowedge of the history or theology of how Christians acted almost 2000 years ago?

It takes faith and repentance to go to heaven.

Yep......faith (which includes repentance) is I guess how I'd put it.

 

[BreadAlone]

We can do NOTHING to gain God's love and eternal life with him. The only thing that saves us is God's good grace and the attoning work of Christ Jesus on the cross. This is biblical:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. And this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast.

Neither faith nor works saves us;

the grace of God in Christ Jesus' sacrifice does.!!

 

[PaladinValer]

Yep...and that's the very thing though...not a whole lota Christians know what's found in the early church.

Do you really think our salvation depends on scholarly knowedge of the history or theology of how Christians acted almost 2000 years ago?

Straw Man.

 

[ticker]

We can do NOTHING to gain God's love and eternal life with him. The only thing that saves us is God's good grace and the attoning work of Christ Jesus on the cross. This is biblical:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith. And this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast.

Neither faith nor works saves us;

the grace of God in Christ Jesus' sacrifice does.!!

Yeah. Amen. It's got nothing to do with what any particular denomination or church thinks we have to do. It's got everything to do with what He did.

Straw Man.

straw man?

 

[Mick116]

Yep...and that's the very thing though...not a whole lota Christians know what's found in the early church.

Do you really think our salvation depends on scholarly knowedge of the history or theology of how Christians acted almost 2000 years ago?

Only as much as our salvation depends on (so-called) "scholarly" knowledge of the Bible. Do you really think the Bible is irrelevant to salvation, just because it is the history and theology of people that lived at least 2000 years ago? And there's not a whole lot'a Christians that know what's found in the Bible, either...

 

[ticker]

Only as much as our salvation depends on (so-called) "scholarly" knowledge of the Bible. Do you really think the Bible is irrelevant to salvation, just because it is the history and theology of people that lived at least 2000 years ago? And there's not a whole lot'a Christians that know what's found in the Bible, either...

Hello Mick116.

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

I'm saying it's not necessary to have knowledge of the ins and outs of how people practiced Christianity almost 2000 years ago...(or ever for that matter)...to know how to recieve our salvation. And it's also not necessary to have a bible to do that (if that's what you mean).

Tons of people around the world who don't have acces to Bibles or churches (due to oppression/lack of resources/etc...) have been saved simply becasue they accepted in their hearts what they heard when told of Jesus Christ.

After any person has done that...then going to church, reading the Bible, etc...are all just bonuses that can get us closer to God.

We don't need to look at the Bible as some sort of "10 steps to get to Heaven" manual...or the Early Church (or any church) as a "How to get to Heaven" school...because there are no set rules for how to get to Heaven that are found in only one particular Bible or only one particular group or denomination.

All there is, is the answering of that loving knock you get on the door of your heart, after having realized you really want what's on the other side...that's it. (And what's on the other side is the gift of salvation).

...kinda makes you feel undeserving of it doesn't it?


Blessings to you.

 

[holo]

Sorry, but your idea is not found in the Early Church. I therefore cannot believe it nor think it orthodox.

You should trust in God rather than in the church.