CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

GenemZ

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So you will not give an answer yes or no to the question. Will a believer lose their Eternal Life if they break The Law.
Look at King Saul. He committed a sin punishable by death. He sought out the witch of Endor. Yet, King Saul was told that he would suffer the sin onto death... yet, would be with Samuel (in Paradise below the earth) after he dies in battle. King Saul did not lose his salvation ever breaking the Law in a most horrible way. Seeking out a witch.


Samuel said, “Why are you asking me, now that the Lord has turned away from you and has become your enemy? The Lord has done exactly as I prophesied! The Lord has torn the kingdom from your hand and has given it to your neighbor David! Since you did not obey the Lord and did not carry out his fierce anger against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this thing to you today. The Lord will hand you and Israel over to the Philistines! Tomorrow both you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also hand the army of Israel over to the Philistines!”
1Sam 28:16-19
Saul and his sons died in battle the next day.. Saul's soul went to be with Samuel. No one lost their salvation.
 
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GenemZ

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Are you post or pre trib?

The Bible teaches pre-Trib.

You want to know a good pastor teacher who will teach you from the Hebrew and Greek texts with great accuracy? And, will ship you the recorded messages free of charge?
 
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d taylor

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Look at King Saul. He committed a sin punishable by death. He sought out the witch of Endor. Yet, King Saul was told that he would suffer the sin onto death... yet, would be with Samuel (in Paradise below the earth) after he dies in battle. King Saul did not lose his salvation ever breaking the Law in a most horrible way. Seeking out a witch.

Samuel said, “Why are you asking me, now that the Lord has turned away from you and has become your enemy? The Lord has done exactly as I prophesied! The Lord has torn the kingdom from your hand and has given it to your neighbor David! Since you did not obey the Lord and did not carry out his fierce anger against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this thing to you today. The Lord will hand you and Israel over to the Philistines! Tomorrow both you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also hand the army of Israel over to the Philistines!” 1Sam 28:16-19
Saul and his sons died in battle the next day.. Saul's soul went to be with Samuel. No one lost their salvation.

Oh i know, no believer can lose their Eternal Life (salvation) just wanted to see lovegodsword give a straight up answer, no weaseling around.
 
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Guojing

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The Bible teaches pre-Trib.

You want to know a good pastor teacher who will teach you from the Hebrew and Greek texts with great accuracy? And, will ship you the recorded messages free of charge?

In that case, you won't even be around for the Tribulation.
 
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GenemZ

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Oh i know, no believer can lose their Eternal Life (salvation) just wanted to see lovegodsword give a straight up answer, no weaseling around.
He's weaseling around because God is working on him by showing him this area of weakness. A human weakness he will need God's grace to overcome, so he could advance onto maturity in Christ.

We all have our weaknesses that God's grace sees as open doors as His means to enter and to enable us to become strong by grace. Those who remain too proud to admit weakness? They will fail to mature in Christ...
 
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GenemZ

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In that case, you won't even be around for the Tribulation.
Neither will you be... Yet, Revelation is already there in showing the drastic contrast of daily lives we do not have today, not matter how bad things may now appear. For during the Tribulation there will be no restraining of evil as we now have in the world. Evil desires what it can not do at this time. Its going to be a real living horror show after the refraining ministry of the Holy Spirit will be removed in the rapture.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
And now you know what is restraining, that he (the Antichrist) may be
revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of
the way (the rapture)."
2 Thes 2:5-7​

The restraining power of the Holy Spirit now on earth with the Church's presence is the reason both Russia and Communist China can not do as much as they really want to do. Its why the Great Tribulation can not begin until after the Holy Spirit in the Church is lifted up and removed.

grace and peace .......
 
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Guojing

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Neither will you be... Yet, Revelation is already there in showing the drastic contrast of daily lives we do not have today, not matter how bad things may now appear. For during the Tribulation there will be no restraining of evil as we now have in the world. Evil desires what it can not do at this time. Its going to be a real living horror show after the refraining ministry of the Holy Spirit will be removed in the rapture.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
And now you know what is restraining, that he (the Antichrist) may be
revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of
the way (the rapture)."
2 Thes 2:5-7​

The restraining power of the Holy Spirit now on earth with the Church's presence is the reason both Russia and Communist China can not do as much as they really want to do. Its why the Great Tribulation can not begin until after the Holy Spirit in the Church is lifted up and removed.

grace and peace .......

There are not many people who are not dispensationalists, but also believe in pre-trib rapture of the body of Christ.

You are like the second I have encountered so far.
 
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d taylor

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How many commandments are there in Gods 10 commandments written on two tables of stone according to the scriptures? Was there 9, 10 or 613? The answer of course is in the question. The answer from scripture to this question is found in Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 10:4 if anyone is interested. Sin according to the scriptures in transgression of Gods' law *1 John 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments according to James in James 2:10-11 we stand guilty before God of sin.

According to God's Word everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living (scripture support here) and taught by Jesus and the Apostles (scripture support here). According to the scriptures the purpose of God's 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (more right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we knowingly break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin. This of course includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed.

According to Gods Word however, God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject his Word according to Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-27 and James 4:17. God knows that many have been falsely taught that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in place of God's 4th commandment. So in times of ignorance God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word. At this time God expects us to believe and follow him.

The hour is coming and now is says Jesus that the true worshipers will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God's people according to the scriptures are in every church living up to all the light from his Word that He has revealed to them.

God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God back to the pure Word of God. According to Jesus if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. The question we must all ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow God or man?

Hope this is helpful.

I figured you would not answer, i removed that funny symbol. But i will not waste any more time doing any back and forths with you.
 
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d taylor

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Neither will you be... Yet, Revelation is already there in showing the drastic contrast of daily lives we do not have today, not matter how bad things may now appear. For during the Tribulation there will be no restraining of evil as we now have in the world. Evil desires what it can not do at this time. Its going to be a real living horror show after the refraining ministry of the Holy Spirit will be removed in the rapture.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
And now you know what is restraining, that he (the Antichrist) may be
revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains (the Holy Spirit) will do so until He is taken out of
the way (the rapture)."
2 Thes 2:5-7​

The restraining power of the Holy Spirit now on earth with the Church's presence is the reason both Russia and Communist China can not do as much as they really want to do. Its why the Great Tribulation can not begin until after the Holy Spirit in the Church is lifted up and removed.

grace and peace .......

Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
 
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GenemZ

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Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

I had someone online once tell me he can't wait until its legal to kill Christians...... I told him he needs to be patient. After the Rapture he will get his wish.

Strange days lay ahead. Knowing the Word of the Lord stabilizes those who know and have the grace (power from the Spirit) granted to live in it.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I figured you would not answer, i removed that funny symbol. But i will not waste any more time doing any back and forths with you.
Again i will ask does a believer lose their Eternal Life if they do not keep the Sabbath.

Do not reply if you cannot answer yes or no

Your question was answered the first time. There is no yes or no answer. According to the scriptures it depends if someone has been given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word and rejects Gods' Word and continues in known unrepentant sin until the day they die or return to God in repentance and confession of sins (see Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-27; James 4:17; 1 John 1:9). For example if some one knows that God's Word says committing adultery is a sin and that person goes out and continues in the known unrepentant sin of adultery until the day they die they will lose eternal life. However, if they return to God and repentance and confess their sins and seek God's forgiveness through faith in God's promises before they die they will not lose eternal life. It is the same with all of Gods' 10 commandments including the Sabbath or 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments. Now what is it you do not believe here? Do you think if someone continues in known unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and reject it that they will be saved? According to the scriptures they will be lost *Matthew 7:21-23: Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 6:4-8.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Oh i know, no believer can lose their Eternal Life (salvation) just wanted to see lovegodsword give a straight up answer, no weaseling around.
I am not quite sure what your talking about here. Where did I ever say a believer can lose eternal life? If I never said such things why are you pretending here that I have? Is a believer one that believes and follows what God's Word says or only believes but does not do what Gods' Word says?
 
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d taylor

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I had someone online once tell me he can't wait until its legal to kill Christians...... I told him he needs to be patient. After the Rapture he will get his wish.

Strange days lay ahead. Knowing the Word of the Lord stabilizes those who know and have the grace (power from the Spirit) granted to live in it.

Right he will have to wait for the tribulation believers. You never know he may end up being one of those believers in the tribulation
 
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LoveGodsWord

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WE ARE WARNED NOT TO GRIEVE GOD'S SPIRIT SO IT DOES NOT DEPART US

Let's start with an interesting view on Ephesians 4:30 which I believe can have many complimentary (not contradictory) applications not just the one below (It is God's Word after all)

EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, in whom ye were SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

Note; the Greek word used in this warning for sealed is σφραγίζω; sphragizō to stamp as a private mark for security or preservation. It does not mean that God's Spirit cannot leave or depart us.

So the meaning applied here is that the Holy Spirit is given to BELIEVERS as a sign of preservation or mark in the "present tense".

Note here also that the scripture tells us that we are SEALED TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. Or the Holy Spirit SEALS BELIEVERS TO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION!

The Greek word for THE DAY OF REDEMPTION is ἀπολύτρωσις; apolutrōsis which means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.

This has reference to the cross and the ransom paid at the cross at Calvary by JESUS for our sins. It also has reference to the 2nd coming but let's focus on the literal Greek meaning here for minute as we cannot have the one without the other. The Greek word REDEMPTION used here means; the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance.

The meaning here has implication that BELIEVERS are SEALED with God's SPIRIT not because of anything we have done, but because of the revelation of God's LOVE revealed at the day of redemption which is the act of ransom in full or Christian salvation and deliverance where God sent His only son to die the death that we deserve so that whosoever BELIEVES on His should not perish but have everlasting life *JOHN 3:16.

An application of the scriptures here meaning that the Holy Spirit seals us to the DAY OF REDEMPTION where JESUS paid the ransom for our sins; paid price of our sins and to die the death that we deserve to die so that we can be reconciled to God not to die for our sins; we have been redeemed from our sins; saved from our sins through FAITH to be called the sons and daughters of God.

The application of the scriptures here meaning that the HOLY SPIRIT leads BELIEVERS and SEALS them to the cross of JESUS so that whosoever believes in the gift of God's dear son should not perish but have eternal life *JOHN 3:16.

BREAKING ANY OF GOD'S COMMANDMENTS GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN (UNBELIEF and BREAKING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS)

EPHESIANS 4:30 [30], And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby you are sealed to the day of redemption.

HEBREWS 3:17 [17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?

PSALMS 95:10-11 [10], Forty years long was I GRIEVED with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: [11], To whom I swore in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

HEBREWS 3:10-11; 17-19 [10], Why I was GRIEVED with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [11], So I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

[17], BUT WHOM WAS HE GRIEVED FORTY YEARS? WAS IT NOT WITH THEM THAT HAD SINNED, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? [18], And to whom swore he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19], So we see that they could not enter in because of UNBELIEF.

PSALMS 119:158 [158], I BEHELD THE TRANSGRESSORS AND WAS GRIEVED; because they kept not your word.

GOD is GRIEVED by SIN and the wages of sin is death...

GENESIS 6:5-7 [5], And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6], And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it GRIEVED HIM AT HIS HEART. [7], And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repents me that I have made them.

IF WE DO NOT REPENT FROM KNOWN SIN WE DO NOT HAVE GOD'S SPIRIT or FORGIVENESS

ACT 2:38 [38], Then Peter said to them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTISED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

ACT 3:19 [19], REPENT YOU THEREFORE AND BE CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS MAY BE BLOTTED OUT, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

ACT 8:22 [22], REPENT THEREFORE OF THIS YOUR WICKEDNESS, AND PRAY GOD, IF PERHAPS THE THOUGHT OF YOUR HEART MAY BE FORGIVEN YOU.

ACT 17:30 [30], And the TIMES OF IGNORANCE GOD WINKED AT; BUT NOW CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.

ACT 26:20 [20], But showed first to them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that THEY SHOULD REPENT AND TURN TO GOD AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE.

...........

KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN GRIEVES GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT and will keep all those who CONTINUE in it OUT of God's KINGDOM just like it was in the days of NOAH so shall it be at the coming of the Son of man (Matthew 24:37-39).
 
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GenemZ

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Only believes what?
Well, in a round about way he answered his own question...


"Is a believer one that believes and follows what God's Word says or only believes but does not do what Gods' Word says?"

To believe is to have obeyed God's Word to believe in His Son. To not to obey on some point whatever may follow salvation does not mean one loses what they obeyed to believe.

Just look at the example of the young man in Corinth sleeping with his mother. If we could lose our salvation Paul would have been jack hammering his congregation with warnings of going to Hell. But, what do we see? They are only told to quarantine the wayward believer and not fellowship with him. Add to that.. The Corinthians were boasting about the affair. Paul would have clobbered them with losing their salvation is such a teaching were truth. In the next book the young man repented... Paul was wise about salvation.


And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of
all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."
Jn 6:39​



The truth of the matter is?

All of us have lost our salvation at some point in our lives if what the weak faith folks say is true.

Here... Some raw material for one's faith....


And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of
all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."
Jn 6:39​



Can anyone imagine Jesus failing to do the will of the Father?
The anti OSAS crowd think Jesus will fail to do the Father's will. For its the Father's will that all who believe will not be lost.

Arguing with them after they have been given "the facts" enough times? It gets to be nonsense after a while.

What else can one do? Its not hard to get for those who understand.

grace and peace .........
 
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sawdust

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Well, in a round about way he answered his own question...

But he also denied it in the same sentence hence my question. If one believes that Jesus is the Saviour then they have followed God's word. So what is he saying they believe so that they are not saved. It really makes no sense to me. :)
 
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GenemZ

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But he also denied it in the same sentence hence my question. If one believes that Jesus is the Saviour then they have followed God's word. So what is he saying they believe so that they are not saved. It really makes no sense to me. :)

But it makes sense to him, emotionally......

When Paul warned that "their god is their belly?" The word 'belly' was their way of describing human emotions. Meaning, they are ruled by how the feel about a matter.... (Not God's Word)

I just received a catalogue delivered from heaven. It wants me to let them know what color of pants I want made for my resurrection body.

I told them "God already knows."

They responded.... "That's been a very popular color!"

grace and peace ..........
 
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