CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

[Guojing]

Now if your claims are true to the above teaching you should be able to show from the scriptures that someone that was once a believer that has fallen away to live in a life of known unrepentant sin while rejecting God's Word will be saved. Where is the scripture that teaches we can believe and not follow God's Word and still be saved? - there is none.

Out of curiosity, how would you understand what Paul told us in the Body of Christ regarding the judgement seat of Christ for us in 1 Cor 3:10-15, especially verse 15?

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Out of curiosity, how would you understand what Paul told us in the Body of Christ regarding the judgement seat of Christ for us in 1 Cor 3:10-15, especially verse 15?

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is the verse used by the RCC to support their doctrine of Purgatory.

 

[GenemZ]

The Sadducees argued that there is no life after death, basing their argument on tradition and scripture. Were they correct?

The Sadducees where using Scripture erroneously to their own demise.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Thank you very much.

For me, all I ask for are verses that very clearly and directly teach what is required for receiving eternal life. And I have found no verses that include anything other than faith in Jesus Christ.

This assumes that a dead faith is not saving faith. But James never even mentioned saving faith. In 2:14 he says "can such faith (without works) save?" The question is "save from what, exactly?" Too many evangelicals unfortunately default to eternal salvation when they come to the word 'save'. If James was actually teaching that trusting in Jesus Christ but having no works/deeds means no salvation, then James would be in total contradiction with the rest of the Bible.

So then, what is James warning about that believers need to be saved from, if not hell in ch 2? The first 13 verses of ch 2 deals with hypocrisy, even though James doesn't use the word. And the example he gave in 2:15,16 is clearly about hypocrisy. So James is warning believers of being called hypocrites if they don't have works.

And he makes that point very clear in v.18. Unfortunately, the translators misplaced the endquote, which messes up the whole verse.

This is how the verse is usually translated:

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Notice the endquote is after the first use of "deeds". Why would the "someone" only say "you have faith; I have deeds". That doesn't make a point or anything.

So, move the endquote to the end of the whole verse. It would look like this:

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

Now it makes sense. The "someone" tells another person that he has faith, but the "someone" has deeds. Then the "someone" gives a challenge. He asks the other person, "show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.".

iow, the point of v.18 is this: you CAN'T show your faith without deeds.


No, James doesn't use the word "faith" in v.19. Again, too many evangelicals use the so-called "faith of demons" as a contrast to "saving faith". This is false.

First, what James said was that "the demons BELIEVE that God is One". That means monotheism, which was particularly a Jewish belief. There is a difference between BELIEVING and FAITH. One can believe something on the basis of experience, which excludes faith. Such as the warning to not touch a hot stove top. Some believe that because they didn't believe their parents and burned their fingers. Some kids don't burn their fingers because they DO believe their parents. iow, they trust what their parents say.


Stop. There are no words in v.27 that shows a condition for receiving eternal life in v.28. v27 is a description of what "they" do. Or a statement of policy about what "they" SHOULD OR OUGHT TO DO.

If you claim v.27 provides the condition for receiving eternal life, then you are violating English grammar and good sense. It is a description ONLY.

If you want the condition for receiving eternal life, just BELIEVE what Jesus said in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

So, those who BELIEVE have (POSSESS) eternal life. This verse teaches that one possesses eternal life the MOMENT they express saving faith.

So, the "they" in 10:28 are those who believe. Those are the ones who receive eternal life.


Sorry, but this is another fallacy about Greek tenses.

The present tense does NOT demand ongoing or continuous action in order for the results of the verb to continue. That is simply false.

The present tense means an action that happens right now, or currently.

So, the moment (that would be present tense when the action occurs) a person believes in Christ they HAVE (present tense) eternal life. That means the MOMENT they believe the have eternal life RIGHT NOW. That's all it means.

The present tense does NOT mean the action of the verb must continue in order for the result of the action to continue. That is false. Well, how about that! Paul did that in his answer to the jailer's question of "what must I do to be saved?" Paul's answer: "believe (aorist) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved." And Rom 10:10 uses the aorist tense for "believe".

Two errors here. The first one is that "believing leads to following and action of doing what God's Word says".

If that were true, then there would have been NO NEED for all the commands given to believers throughout the NT epistles. Every epistle has numerous commands regarding behavior throughout the epistle. They would be irrelevant if true belief always leads to proper action. Paul told the Ephesian believers: " So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking." Eph 4:17

That's pretty strong language from Paul. He's telling the believers to STOP living like the unbelievers. If they were truly saved, and Paul certainly addressed them as believers, why would they need to be so warned? Doesn't make sense.

Second error is about the Greek present tense. Again, the action doesn't have to continue for the results to continue.


Nope. saving faith is when a person realizes they are a sinner, headed to hell, and TRUSTS in Jesus Christ to save him/her. Faith, believing is trust.


This verse teaches that those who do NOT believe do not have life.

However, there are 2 verses that make very clear that condemnation is for those who NEVER have believed.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The phrase "have not believed" means NEVER believed.

So, once belief, always saved. Or OBAS.

Hello FG2, Thanks for your response. I read all your post here and see it simply as a hand waive to the scriptures provided to you over the last two posts to you. There was a lot of things wrong with your post that I was going to respond to especially your claims to the Greek used for believe to believing to present tense or continual in application present tense to believing in John 3 that I was discussing (not some other scriptures from Romans not relevant to context).

I was going to respond with a detailed reply to every section of your post but decided that there is no point as I think that what ever is written to you after my posts from post # 406 linked and post # 407 linked that you simply hand waived away in the first post not addressing what was written there or completely ignoring the second post, would continue to be ignored or hand waived away in the future. If however you are interested in the Greek let me know and I will post from the Greek scholar Daniel Wallace who you seem to be in disagreement with.

I thought it would be best that this post be simple one. Let's look at the claims and both of our premises and see how it matches to other scripture. The last two posts of mine to you in particular demonstrate from the scriptures and the Greek in John who we were discussing that God's salvation and God's promises promises are conditional on believing and following what God's Word says in order to receive eternal life with James also agreeing that if we believe and do not do what God's Word says we have dead faith or the same faith that devils have in James 2:17-20; 26

So then if this understanding of the scriptures is true that God's salvation is conditional on believing (always present tense active) and following (doing what Gods' Word says)

or

Your understanding of the scriptures is true, that we can believe in God (Jesus) but not do what Gods' Word asks us to do and receive everlasting life.

There should be supporting scriptures right?

CONDITIONAL SALVATION

For example I have already demonstrated in post # 406 linked and post # 407 linked that you ignored that Salvation is conditional to "IF" (here) in both Hebrew and Greek (conditional particle; if you do this then this will happen). We also looked at the application of living faith and dead faith defined in the scriptures being a dead faith in believing but not following what Gods' Word says and a living faith as believing and following (doing) what Gods' Word says in James and John 10:27-28.

The above is further supported by the scriptures showing what happens to believers that once believed and followed God's Word but who choose to fall away and depart the faith to become unbelievers (no longer believe and follow what Gods' Word says) to return to a life of known unrepentant sin (disobedience to God's Word)...

Let’s look at the scriptures and see what they are saying…

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHO'S END IS TO BE BURNED.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

..................

The above scriptures clearly show that a believer can fall away and depart the faith to become an unbeliever living a life of known unrepentant sin by disobeying and rejecting Gods' Word and losing there salvation and eternal life while receiving the punishment of the unbelieving wicked. There end is to be burned (v6) which is the same punishment of the unbelieving wicked (2 Peter 3:7). The above can also be shown in Hebrews 10:26-39 which we can discuss latter that shows that we can depart the faith and receive Gods' judgements.

..................

UNCONDITIONAL SALVATION, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, ONCE BELIEVE ALWAYS SAVED

Now if your claims are true to the above teaching you should be able to show from the scriptures that someone that was once a believer that has fallen away to live in a life of known unrepentant sin while rejecting God's Word will be saved. Where is the scripture that teaches we can believe and not follow God's Word and still be saved? - there is none.

.................

CONCLUSION: A scripture that sums up this topic very well....

Ezekiel 18:4 [4], Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL DIE.

Hope this helps.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Out of curiosity, how would you understand what Paul told us in the Body of Christ regarding the judgement seat of Christ for us in 1 Cor 3:10-15, especially verse 15?

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hello Guojing, My understanding is that 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is talking about building the church of God (the people are the Church). We build God's Church by sharing our understanding of God's Word. If our understanding of God's Word is good it is represented here as "gold, silver and precious stones". If our understanding of the scriptures is bad and we bring those into God's church based on false teachings it is represented as "wood, hay and stubble" which will be burned at the second coming. Where it says in v15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire, my understanding here is that if the one that suffers loss makes His own foundation as Christ will still be saved but will suffer the loss in those he has led astray through false teachings who may have no foundation in Christ who will be burned up at the second coming with the rest of the wicked. The chapter summary and context here is important to 1 Corinthians 3. Paul cannot call the Corinthian Christians ''spiritual'' people. Though they are in Christ, they continue to live to the flesh. They are spiritual infants, not ready for solid food. Divisions among them prove they are still serving themselves, picking sides in a senseless debate between Christian teachers. Paul insists that both he and Apollos are mere servants of the Lord and co-workers. They are not in competition. Those who lead the Corinthians must build carefully because their work will be tested on the day of the Lord. Christian leaders who build the church will have their work judged by Christ to see if they have built on the foundation of Christ. All human wisdom will be shown to be futile and worthless (Chapter summery here is from Bible ref that I used to save some time).

 

[GenemZ]

Interesting, how do you see it as "child abuse" into the meaning of that passage?

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to
stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around
their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world
because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come,
but woe to the person through whom they come! If your hand or your foot
causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to
enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be
thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out
and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have
two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." Mat 18:6-9​

The context in which "cut off your hand" was spoken was, yes.. about child abuse. Jesus covered the sin with great intensity in the Greek.

Read Matthew 18.

Here is an excellent source you can study and learn from from.

I listened to this series about a year ago. It is brutally serious business in what is taught. It also teaches how abused children will become maladjusted adults, and God's soultion.


Title:

Child Abuse “Unfit Parents and Tragic Children”:

Matthew 18:1–14

Series... Spiritual Dynamics (1992)

The lessons 31–57



Here is the teacher. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

No money will be asked for.

Order here. You can call if you wish, and they will help you place the order. Just keep the info I just gave you.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Ordering and Contact Information

grace and peace ...........

 

[Guojing]

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to
stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around
their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world
because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come,
but woe to the person through whom they come! If your hand or your foot
causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to
enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be
thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out
and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have
two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." Mat 18:6-9​

The context in which "cut off your hand" was spoken, was about child abuse. Yes, Jesus covered the topic with great intensity in the Greek.

Read Matthew 18.

Here is an excellent source you can study and learn from from.

I listened to this series about a year ago. It is brutally serious business in what is taught. It also teaches how abused children will become maladjusted adults, and God's soultion.


Title:

Child Abuse “Unfit Parents and Tragic Children”:

Matthew 18:1–14

Series... Spiritual Dynamics (1992)

The lessons 31–57



Here is the teacher. R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

No money will be asked for.

Order here. You can call if you wish, and they will help you place the order. Just keep the info I just gave you.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries — Ordering and Contact Information

grace and peace ...........

Most interesting that you use Matthew 18 to understand Matthew 5, when the topic in Matthew 5 is about who gets into the kingdom of heaven.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Guojing]

Hello Guojing, My understanding is that 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is talking about building the church of God (the people are the Church). We build God's Church by sharing our understanding of God's Word. If our understanding of God's Word is good it is represented here as "gold, silver and precious stones". If our understanding of the scriptures is bad and we bring those into God's church based on false teachings it is represented as "wood, hay and stubble" which will be burned at the second coming. Where it says in v15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire, my understanding here is that if the one that suffers loss makes His own foundation as Christ he may still be saved but will suffer loss in those he has led astray through false teachings who will have no foundation in Christ who will be burned up at the second coming.

So would you agree that Paul is teaching us in the Body of Christ that, if our works are not present or built on the wrong foundation, we will lose rewards, but our salvation is still intact?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So would you agree that Paul is teaching us in the Body of Christ that, if our works are not present or built on the wrong foundation, we will lose rewards, but our salvation is still intact?

Not at all. Please re-read the post. Those who come into the Church based on false teachings will be burned up if Christ is not their foundation as this is the work of those false teachers spreading a false gospel. It is saying if that person's foundation is Christ of course witnessed in the actions of the life he will be saved.

The chapter summary of 1 Corinthians 3 is that Paul cannot call the Corinthian Christians ''spiritual'' people. Though they are in Christ, they continue to live to the flesh. They are spiritual infants, not ready for solid food. Divisions among them prove they are still serving themselves, picking sides in a senseless debate between Christian teachers. Paul insists that both he and Apollos are mere servants of the Lord and co-workers. They are not in competition. Those who lead the Corinthians must build carefully because their work will be tested on the day of the Lord. Christian leaders who build the church will have their work judged by Christ to see if they have built on the foundation of Christ. All human wisdom will be shown to be futile and worthless

What this means here in light also of other scripture is that God only holds us accountable to our understanding of the scriptures until we grow in the knowledge of his the truth of God's Word and he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word. At this time God expects us to believe and follow it *James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. The Corinthians that Paul is talking to here he refers to being babes in their understanding of the scriptures but he has laid the foundation for them in Christ. He is warning them to learn from the scriptures based on this foundation (Christ) and be careful to build the Church on the truth of God's Word.

Hope this is more helpful

 

[Guojing]

Not at all. Please re-read the post. Those who come into the Church based on false teachings will be burned up as Christ is as this is the work of those false teachers. It is saying if that person's foundation is Christ of course witnessed in the actions of the life he will be saved.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Vs 15 says the work shall be burned, resulting in loss, the word but tells us but he himself shall be saved.

You are changing that to "that person will be burned up"?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Vs 15 says the work shall be burned, the word but tells us but he himself shall be saved.

You are changing that to "that person will be burned up"?

No, I was not changing anything. The work being referred to here as already shown is the work of building up the Church. Perhaps this commentary will help

 

[Guojing]

No, I was not changing anything. The work being referred to here as already shown is the work of building up the Church. Perhaps this commentary will help

the phrase but he himself shall be saved is not enough to indicate to you that his salvation remains intact?

 

[klutedavid]

Hello FG2, Thanks for your response. I read all your post here and see it simply as a hand waive to the scriptures provided to you over the last two posts to you. There was a lot of things wrong with your post that I was going to respond to especially your claims to the Greek used for believe to believing to present tense or continual in application present tense to believing in John 3 that I was discussing (not some other scriptures from Romans not relevant to context).

I was going to respond with a detailed reply to every section of your post but decided that there is no point as I think that what ever is written to you after my posts from post # 406 linked and post # 407 linked that you simply hand waived away in the first post not addressing what was written there or completely ignoring the second post, would continue to be ignored or hand waived away in the future. If however you are interested in the Greek let me know and I will post from the Greek scholar Daniel Wallace who you seem to be in disagreement with.

I thought it would be best that this post be simple one. Let's look at the claims and both of our premises and see how it matches to other scripture. The last two posts of mine to you in particular demonstrate from the scriptures and the Greek in John who we were discussing that God's salvation and God's promises promises are conditional on believing and following what God's Word says in order to receive eternal life with James also agreeing that if we believe and do not do what God's Word says we have dead faith or the same faith that devils have in James 2:17-20; 26

So then if this understanding of the scriptures is true that God's salvation is conditional on believing (always present tense active) and following (doing what Gods' Word says)

or

Your understanding of the scriptures is true, that we can believe in God (Jesus) but not do what Gods' Word asks us to do and receive everlasting life.

There should be supporting scriptures right?

CONDITIONAL SALVATION

For example I have already demonstrated in post # 406 linked and post # 407 linked that you ignored that Salvation is conditional to "IF" (here) in both Hebrew and Greek (conditional particle; if you do this then this will happen). We also looked at the application of living faith and dead faith defined in the scriptures being a dead faith in believing but not following what Gods' Word says and a living faith as believing and following (doing) what Gods' Word says in James and John 10:27-28.

The above is further supported by the scriptures showing what happens to believers that once believed and followed God's Word but who choose to fall away and depart the faith to become unbelievers (no longer believe and follow what Gods' Word says) to return to a life of known unrepentant sin (disobedience to God's Word)...

Let’s look at the scriptures and see what they are saying…

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHO'S END IS TO BE BURNED.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

..................

The above scriptures clearly show that a believer can fall away and depart the faith to become an unbeliever living a life of known unrepentant sin by disobeying and rejecting Gods' Word and losing there salvation and eternal life while receiving the punishment of the unbelieving wicked. There end is to be burned (v6) which is the same punishment of the unbelieving wicked (2 Peter 3:7). The above can also be shown in Hebrews 10:26-39 which we can discuss latter that shows that we can depart the faith and receive Gods' judgements.

..................

UNCONDITIONAL SALVATION, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, ONCE BELIEVE ALWAYS SAVED

Now if your claims are true to the above teaching you should be able to show from the scriptures that someone that was once a believer that has fallen away to live in a life of known unrepentant sin while rejecting God's Word will be saved. Where is the scripture that teaches we can believe and not follow God's Word and still be saved? - there is none.

.................

CONCLUSION: A scripture that sums up this topic very well....

Ezekiel 18:4 [4], Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL DIE.

Hope this helps.

In this paragraph from your giant post.

You said the following.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Concerning No. 8

8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Where does Hebrews 6:6 say "by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh"?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In this paragraph from your giant post.

You said the following.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...

1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Concerning No. 8

8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Where does Hebrews 6:6 say "by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh"?

Yes there is a lot of scripture provided that disagrees with your teachings of lawlessness (without law).

Hebrews 6:6 6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Jesus died for our sins. Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). Repentance of sin is a condition of God's salvation *Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Proverbs 28:13. Jesus came to save us from sin. Jesus does not save us so that we are now free to continue in sin (John 8:31-36). According to the scriptures if we continue in sin will will die because we reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31.

We should therefore be careful to believe and follow God's Word (I include myself here). Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

the phrase but he himself shall be saved is not enough to indicate to you that his salvation remains intact?

I do not think you are understanding what is being written to you. Try reading everything posted on the subject again. I never said the builders would not be saved. I think you might have a misunderstanding.

 

[Guojing]

I do not think you are understanding what is being written to you. Try reading everything posted on the subject again. I never said the builders would not be saved. I think you might have a misunderstanding.

So my point is that 1 Cor 3:10-15 indicated that us in the Body of Christ, even if we don't have a single work to show at the end, we shall not lose our salvation.

Would you agree with that?

If you disagree, can you tell us in a simple manner what is your interpretation of that passage and why you believe it indicates salvation can be lost?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So my point is that 1 Cor 3:10-15 indicated that us in the Body of Christ, even if we don't have a single work to show at the end, we shall not lose our salvation.

Would you agree with that?

If you disagree, can you tell us in a simple manner what is your interpretation of that passage and why you believe it indicates salvation can be lost?

It depends. For example the thief on the cross, babe in Christ, growing in the knowledge of Gods' grace through his Word (John 8:31-36). God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know (see James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31). Paul calls the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 3 babes in Christ because they do not know God's Word.

Hope this helps

 

[Guojing]

It depends. For example the thief on the cross, babe in Christ, growing in the knowledge of Gods' grace through his Word (John 8:31-36). God only holds us accountable to what we know not what we do not know (see James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31). Paul calls the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 3 babes in Christ because they do not know God's Word.

Hope this helps

Thanks but again I am not asking you to use other scripture passages.

I am asking for your interpretation of what Paul was saying in 1 Cor 3:10-15.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes there is a lot of scripture provided that disagrees with your teachings of lawlessness (without law).

Hebrews 6:6 6, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Jesus died for our sins. Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). Repentance of sin is a condition of God's salvation *Acts of the Apostles 2:38; Proverbs 28:13. Jesus came to save us from sin. Jesus does not save us so that we are now free to continue in sin (John 8:31-36). According to the scriptures if we continue in sin will will die because we reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31.

We should therefore be careful to believe and follow God's Word (I include myself here). Ignoring God's Word does not make it disappear.

I am not ignoring what that verse states. I am trying to understand, how you can make that verse (Hebrews 6:6) state something else. The verse is talking about falling away from Jesus. Since a person whom falls away from Jesus cannot return. That is what the word 'repentance' means in this verse. Repenting from unbelief in Jesus to belief.

There is only one sin that leads to death!

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

 

[HIM]

The Context of the letter says you are wrong.

For it says there is No Inheritance in the kingdom of God for the children disobedience. Let no man deceive you. For this cause comes the wrath of God. Be not partakers with them.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


The context of the letter proves what you assert below in this quote to be incorrect. Where did you get it from anyway? You might want to stay away, because they don't know what they are talking about Gene.

Unregenerate sinners would freely mingle with this "new thing" called Christianity. Paul needed to tell them to separate themselves from their old culture. Not to listen to seducers back to the old ways.

Just the same.. Who's a harlot monger here???? You are talking about habitual unregenerate sinners vs believers who may in weakness fail and fall into sin.

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, calls the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus to follow him as dear children and walk in love Therefore let not fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, be once named among you, as becometh the saints in which he had already addressed them as.


Habitual?

How often is habitual Gene?

Once named?

Twiced named?

One to 3 times a week?

A month?

A year?

Once again CONTEXT.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


Be not deceived

You're a sinner saved by grace! That means? At weak points in your life you could fail... and still sin!

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody
does sin, we have an advocate with the Father —Jesus Christ, the Righteous
One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 Jn 2:1-2​

If it is not of Faith it is of sin. At weak points in our lives we shall stand. For we are more than conquerors in Christ Jesus
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
.

I do not like sin. I like it no more than when I see self righteousness in some believers.

Self righteousness is worse than sin. Its evil.

Self righteousness is sin.