CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

LoveGodsWord

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I have already answered you, what are your answers? If one does not agree with you on the Sabbath or Ellen White, will they be lost?

Nope. No you did not. As shown earlier, you have only been provided God's WORD and asked questions you cannot or refuse to answer. You provide your own words. Who should be believed God or you. These are God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me. I will provide the scriptures for these questions shortly if your not able to answer the questions of the OP. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

Back to the OP

1. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

3. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God)
 
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alv_c

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Hello all. Thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's GRACE if there is not LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

..............

*FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

God bless you all :wave:

Favor is not granted because of obedience to the Torah not because obedience to the Torah is not necessary, but because we have all broken the Torah of God, which already curses us, which is why favor is attained through belief, yet after believing, it is then necessary to obey Torah, otherwise belief is null, and all we are left with is a curse, for continuing to remain in disobedience even though we do believe. So in summary, belief and also obedience to the Torah is required, while also understanding why we are receiving favor, not because we deserve it, because all we deserve is death according to the Torah, but because God is gracious and merciful.
 
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YeshuaFan

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Nope. No you did not. As shown earlier, you have only been provided God's WORD and asked questions you cannot or refuse to answer. You provide your own words. Who should be believed God or you. These are God's WORD not mine so your argument is with God not me. I will provide the scriptures for these questions shortly if your not able to answer the questions of the OP. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4.

Back to the OP

1. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

3. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God)
Does God require us to keep the Sabbath today, to heed Ellen White as being from God in order to be and keep saved?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Does God require us to keep the Sabbath today, to heed Ellen White as being from God in order to be and keep saved?

According to God's WORD is someone in a SAVED state before GOD or an UNSAVED state before GOD if they KNOWINGLY continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ACTS 17:30-31?

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

According to God's WORD, God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Did you have and scriptures to share?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Favor is not granted because of obedience to the Torah not because obedience to the Torah is not necessary, but because we have all broken the Torah of God, which already curses us, which is why favor is attained through belief, yet after believing, it is then necessary to obey Torah, otherwise belief is null, and all we are left with is a curse, for continuing to remain in disobedience even though we do believe. So in summary, belief and also obedience to the Torah is required, while also understanding why we are receiving favor, not because we deserve it, because all we deserve is death according to the Torah, but because God is gracious and merciful.

Hello alv_c, welcome and nice to meet you. Who is saying that GRACE is granted to OBEDIENCE to God's LAW? Do we BELIEVE God's WORD if we do not FOLLOW God's WORD?

God bless
 
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YeshuaFan

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According to God's WORD is someone in a SAVED state before GOD or an UNSAVED state before GOD if they KNOWINGLY continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN *HEBREWS 10:26-27; ACTS 17:30-31?

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. All those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

According to God's WORD, God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9. There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now, <when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Did you have and scriptures to share?
Supreme irony that one who sees EW as inspired as the Apostles themselves would quote to me being a follower of men!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Supreme irony that one who sees EW as inspired as the Apostles themselves would quote to me being a follower of men!

Sepreme irony is not knowing God's WORD and speaking ones own words in place of Gods. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it *ROMANS 3:4.
 
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alv_c

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Hello alv_c, welcome and nice to meet you. Who is saying that GRACE is granted to OBEDIENCE to God's LAW? Do we BELIEVE God's WORD if we do not FOLLOW God's WORD?

God bless

You must believe and you must obey was the point of what I said.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Ok let's start by answering question #1 of the OP.

Q1. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Grace is linked to mercy and peace from God the farther and from JESUS in love and truth.

2 JOHN 1:3
[3] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

ROMANS 1:5
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

We are to grow in God's GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our LORD JESUS CHRSIT.

2 PETER 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. *2 PETER 1:2

We do this by seeking JESUS to be our teacher and continuing in God's WORD.

JOHN 14:26
[26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

JOHN 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

TITUS 2:11-12
[11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

God's GRACE is given to us because all of us have sinned and are sinners (broken God's 10 Commandments) and the wages of SIN is death *ROMANS 3:23; ROMANS 5:12; ROMANS 6:23.

ROMANS 8:3-4
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTOUESNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD
χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD
חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it to save us from our sins and their penalty and sinful nature through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Hope this helps.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hello all. Thought this would be an interesting topic for discussion. How can you have God's GRACE if there is not LAW that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL? If we do not KNOW that we are all sinners how can we see our need of a Saviour?

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. If we do not know we are sick why would we seek a physician?

.............

WHAT IS GRACE FOR? answered here click me

WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Scripture please)

..............

*FRIENDLY DISCUSSION PLEASE; PLEASE PROVIDE SCRIPTURE FOR YOUR CLAIMS

God bless you all :wave:

There is a righteousness apart from the Law, through faith, this is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us as pure grace. Not only can we have grace without the Law, that is precisely what makes grace grace. There is no grace in the Law, only condemnation.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There is a righteousness apart from the Law, through faith, this is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us as pure grace. Not only can we have grace without the Law, that is precisely what makes grace grace. There is no grace in the Law, only condemnation.

-CryptoLutheran

Hi ViaCrucis, thanks for your thoughts did you want to have a go at answering the OP questions?

1. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?
2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
3. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

*Scripture please.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Ok let's start by answering questions #1 of the OP.

Q1. WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Grace is linked to mercy and peace from God the farther and from JESUS in love and truth.

2 JOHN 1:3 [3] Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

ROMANS 1:5 [5], By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

We are to grow in God's GRACE and the KNOWLEDGE of our LORD JESUS CHRSIT.

2 PETER 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. *2 PETER 1:2

We do this by seeking JESUS to be our teacher and continuing in God's WORD.

JOHN 14:26 [26], But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

JOHN 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
[32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

TITUS 2:11-12 [11], FOR THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED BRINGING SALVATION TO ALL MEN, [12], TEACHING US, THAT, DENYING UNGODLINESS AND WORLDLY JUSTS, WE SHOULD LIVE SOBERLY, RIGHTOUESLY AND GODLY IN THIS PRESENT WORLD

ROMANS 6:1-2, [1] What shall we say then? SHALL WE SIN [break any one of God's 10 commandments], THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND? God forbid. [2], How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

ROMANS 6:15-17 What then? SHALL WE SIN BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID! [16] Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of SIN RESULTING IN DEATH, or of OBEDIENCE resulting in righteousness?

ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.


God's GRACE is given to us because all of us have sinned and are sinners (broken God's 10 Commandments) and the wages of SIN is death *ROMANS 3:23; ROMANS 5:12; ROMANS 6:23.

ROMANS 8:3-4
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTOUESNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

...................

WORD MEANINGS OF GRACE

GRACE GREEK WORD
χάρις; charis khar'-ece From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).

GRACE HEBREW WORD
חן; chên khane From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively kindness, favor or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.

.....................

CONCLUSION: Grace is unmerited favour leading to a change of behaviour. God's GRACE IS FOR OBEDIENCE to GOD'S WORD in those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it to save us from our sins and the penalty of sin (death) and our sinful nature through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am actually quite surprised that no one is able to answer these questions. Question 1 was answered above and in post # 441 here linked. Let's look at the next question in the OP.

Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Part 1/2)

From the scriptures it was shown God's GRACE is linked to MERCY and PEACE and TRUTH because all of us have SINNED and fall short of the Glory of GOD and the wages of sin is death. *ROMANS 3:23; ROMANS 5:12; ROMANS 6:23. But God so loved our world that he sent his only SON to die on our behalf for the sins that we all have committed in order to bring us back to GOD.

JOHN 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

ROMANS 8:3-4
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: [4], THAT THE RIGHTOUESNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

God's GRACE is shown that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

ROMANS 5:6-10
[6], For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[7], For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[8], But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9], Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[10], For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This leads us to the next question.

CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

If we are all SINNERS in need of a SAVIOUR if we do not KNOW that we are sinners will how can we see God's GRACE? Notice this next question from JESUS to the Pharisees that thought they were rightouess in God's eyes.

MATTHEW 7:12-13
[12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

and again...

MATTHEW 5:20
[20], For I say to you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART.

BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

Can we have GRACE without God's LAW if the purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172?

We will go more into this question in PART 2 of this post....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Q2. CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? (Part 2/2)

Can we have GRACE without God's LAW if the purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172?

This same question is linked to what JESUS says to the Pharisees in MATTHEW 7.

MATTHEW 7:12-13
[12], But when Jesus heard that, he said to them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. [13], But go you and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

JESUS tells the PHARISEES to go learn what it means when he says; They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick; I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE SINNERS IN NEED OF A SAVIOUR? HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE ARE SICK IN NEED OF A PHYSICIAN? JESUS is saying that it is these that he has come for NOT those that think they are RIGHTOUESNESS and have no need. SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4

God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. The purpose of God's LAW is to show us that we are all sick with SIN and in need of a SAVIOUR. God's LAW (10 commandments) lead us to the true PHYSICIAN JESUS so we can be healed. God's LAW is the mirror we look into to see ourselves as God sees us full of SIN from the INSIDE OUT.

It is God's LAW that leads us to cross of our LORD and SAVIOUR where we behold the LOVE of GOD has for us in that while we were yet SINNERS Christ died for us that whosoever should BELIEVE on him should not PERISH but should have everlasting life *ROMANS 5:6-10; JOHN 3:15-16. God's LAW leads us to the CROSS of JESUS where we have our eyes opened to God's LOVE for us and to see JESUS dying for the sins that we have done in order to bring us back to GOD. This is God's gift to all who BELIEVE and accept the GIFT of JESUS, His DEATH for our SINS. The purpose of God's LAW is to lead us to CHRIST that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH by accepting his death for our SINS *GALATIANS 3:22-25.

..............

CONCLUSION: CAN WE HAVE GOD'S GRACE IN THE NC WITHOUT GOD'S LAW? The answer as shown in the scriptures above is NO! It is God's LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. It is God's LAW that leads us to God's GRACE found in his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVES in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life. If is God's LAW that leads us to the CROSS that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH. If you do not know you are sick you have no need of a Physician. If we have no KNOWLEDGE of SIN we have no need of a Saviour.

God bless.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Q3. WHAT PART DOES GOD'S LAW HAVE IN GRACE?

This one is possibly the easiest of the three questions to answer. To answer this question we need to understand th purpose of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments).

The purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Without God's LAW (10 Commandments) we have no KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is. If we have no knowledge of what sin is then we have no need of a Saviour. If we have no need of a Saviour we have no salvation because we are still in our sins. If we are still in our sins we are lost because the wages of sin is death to those who reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's LAW is the mirror that shows us that we are all SINNERS *JAMES 1:23 in need of a Saviour 1 JOHN 4:14.

We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. God's LAW is the mirror that shows us we are all sick with sin and in need of the great Physician (Saviour) *JAMES 1:23. GOD'S LAW leads us to Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by FAITH at the foot of the cross of JESUS where we are without excuse. Here we see the GIFT of GRACE and God's LOVE for us in Gods dear son. Here we see God's LOVE for sinners of whom I am chief. The penalty for SIN is death *ROMANS 6:23. We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God *ROMANS 3:23 and stand guilty before GOD of sin. The only atonement for sin is death but God so loved us that he was not willing that any one of us should perish and gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life *JOHN 3:16. JESUS died the death we deserve to die on our behalf for anyone who will accept God's GIFT of GRACE found in JESUS death on the cross.

The purpose of God's LAW is to lead us to GRACE found only through GOD'S dear son where we can find FORGIVENESS for the burden of our sins as we rely and BELIEVE soley in the promises of GOD's WORD. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician and many do not know the meaning *MATTHEW 9:12-13. God's LAW shows us our sickness. When JESUS, the great Physician says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you? What wonders we see in God's LOVE for us in that while we were yet sinners condemned to die; JESUS died my death for my sins that if I accept his free gift of LIFE, I might live. Nothnig as an offering do I bring simply to your cross I cling. Open our eyes Lord. We want to see JESUS. May God bless you dear friend as you see the gift of God's dear son in JESUS

There is NO GRACE without God's LAW. It is God's LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is and leads us to God's GRACE.

God bless
 
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The within scripture and chapter CONTEXT is where we then must determine the correct application and meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 which is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS <plural>:

PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

wait for it back to the NEW...

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

HEBREWS 10:1-9
[1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
[5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
[6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
[7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
[8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
[9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

.............

CONCLUSION: COLOSSIANS 2 is not talking about God's 10 commandments. It is talking about the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. No more sin offereings, and ordinances in FEAST days and Levitical Priesthood.

Hope this helps.
 
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ace of hearts

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Nope not at all. Sabbath here is plural (FEASTIVAL Sabbaths) it is not the Sabbath singular. The within scripture and chapter CONTEXT is the the SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7. Here let's look at both the within scripture and chapter context and examine your claims. Paul is explaining why we no longer need to worry about the SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES not God's 10 commandments. Let's start by looking at the within chapter context.

COL 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT
[11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
[13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
[16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
[17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

Let's continue on through the chapter...

COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφω exaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS> that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14
Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments which is death) and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

What is the penalty for sin that was against us in the OLD and NEW COVENANT?

ECCLESIASTES 18:20 20, The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The death penalty is against us. So were all the ceremonial laws from the OLD COVENANT that were required to seek God's forgiveness *LEVITICUS 16. In the NEW COVENANT we are forgiven by FAITH through confession and repentance for our sins *1 JOHN 1:9; MATTHEW 3:2 . No more animal sacrifices required.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

That is the within chapter context of COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 let's look at the within scripture context of COLOSSIANS 2:16 next....
Why is it you disbelieve and disregard Col 2:17?
 
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