Can you find the Church?

[Fidelibus]

1. The NT Church as it existed in the first century does not exist today.

Is it your belief the first century NT Church was founded by Jesus Christ?

Could you give some examples of the beliefs and teachings of the first century NT church and taught it's followers.

Also, could you show some doctrines of the first century NT Church, and do you believe any church of today are aligned with the first century church?

And lastly, when in history do you believe the first century NT Church ceased to exist?

2. If we are to converse further and totally on my thoughts on the RCC we should do so through PM.

Why? I'm cool with discussing your thoughts on the open forum.

Have a Blessed Day

 

[Love First]

Is it your belief the first century NT Church was founded by Jesus Christ?

Could you give some examples of the beliefs and teachings of the first century NT church and taught it's followers.

Also, could you show some doctrines of the first century NT Church, and do you believe any church of today are aligned with the first century church?

And lastly, when in history do you believe the first century NT Church ceased to exist?




Why? I'm cool with discussing your thoughts on the open forum.

Have a Blessed Day

Hi Fidelibus,

1. Yes of course I believe Yeshua founded the church.

2. I will give you a couple examples of a big differences.
A. The early church had all things in common.
B. The early church operated in greater spiritual power.

I could give you more examples than that but that’s good for now.

3. I believe that the Church fell into apostasy in the early centuries.

4. I cannot discuss my full thoughts on the RCC openly because it would violate the forums rules so if you want to have that discussion we would have to do so through PM.

 

[Albion]

I am not the same as when I was a child but I am the same person. The Church today is the same Church established at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit came as Christ had promised, and began to lead the Church into all truth. It is the same Church, albeit all grown up.

1. Yes of course I believe Yeshua founded the church.
2. I will give you a couple examples of a big differences.
A. The early church had all things in common.
B. The early church operated in greater spiritual power.

But the main point is that the original church was non-denominational. In time, formal and separate church institutions developed. To that extent, the original church no longer exists.

Also, the original church did not have anywhere near the number of doctrines that virtually every denomination today does.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi Fidelibus,

1. Yes of course I believe Yeshua founded the church.

2. I will give you a couple examples of a big differences.
A. The early church had all things in common.
B. The early church operated in greater spiritual power.

I could give you more examples than that but that’s good for now.

3. I believe that the Church fell into apostasy in the early centuries.

4. I cannot discuss my full thoughts on the RCC openly because it would violate the forums rules so if you want to have that discussion we would have to do so through PM.

I agree. All you have to do is look at God's Ten Commandments to see the church fell away from the teachings of Jesus and the disciples, which includes God's 4th commandment that God asked us to remember and most teach the opposite, that we should forget.

 

[ChetSinger]

I'm talking about the "true Church,"........ i.e., the one started by Christ and founded upon the Apostles.

Jesus did say he was going to build his Church, didn’t he....... (Matt. 16:18)?

Isn’t “the church” spoken of often in Scripture ( Eph.3:10, 5:21–32; Col.1:24; 1 Tim 2: 15)?

Your thoughts?

Have a Blessed day

Oh yeah, I'm sure the church is here because I see it. I believe those in any denomination or congregation who have the Holy Spirit are members of his church:

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. - Romans 8:9-11​

 

[bbbbbbb]

But the main point is that the original church was non-denominational. In time, formal and separate church institutions developed. To that extent, the original church no longer exists.

Also, the original church did not have anywhere near the number of doctrines that virtually every denomination today does.

Both are quite true. It is utterly absurd for any branch of Christianity to claim be THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

 

[concretecamper]

In time, formal and separate church institutions developed. To that extent, the original church no longer exists.

this answer screams " I give up". Jesus promised to be with His Church until the end of this age. This answer insinuates the Lord didnt keep His promise. This answer seems like someone isnt sure of His denomination.

 

[concretecamper]

Both are quite true

sounds like you aren't sure either.

 

[bbbbbbb]

sounds like you aren't sure either.

I am absolutely certain as the remainder of my post, which you conveniently failed to include in your reply, clearly states.

 

[concretecamper]

Both are quite true. It is utterly absurd for any branch of Christianity to claim be THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.

sounds like you're not sure either.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm talking about the "true Church,"........ i.e., the one started by Christ and founded upon the Apostles.

Jesus did say he was going to build his Church, didn’t he....... (Matt. 16:18)?

Isn’t “the church” spoken of often in Scripture ( Eph.3:10, 5:21–32; Col.1:24; 1 Tim 2: 15)?

Your thoughts?

Have a Blessed day

From my studies I believe the EOC fits the description the best.

 

[BNR32FAN]

As far as making claim to being the original church started by the apostles the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Catholic Church both make claim to that status.

But as far as finding the pure church as Yeshua originally built it that is not possible and honestly even the early church was not perfect and pure.

So to answer your question the perfect and pure church does not exist but the church that exists today is an outgrowth of the movement started by Yeshua and his apostles. But since the conditions of the early church were only for that period of history and time we will never have those exact same experiences again.

This seems to suggest that evil did prevail over Christ’s church, which He said would not happen. According to Matthew 16:18 Christ’s church must remain.

 

[Love First]

This seems to suggest that evil did prevail over Christ’s church, which He said would not happen. According to Matthew 16:18 Christ’s church must remain.

No, I’m saying that the Church as a whole fell away into apostasy not that the remnant and true church ceased to exist.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, I’m saying that the Church as a whole fell away into apostasy not that the remnant and true church ceased to exist.

Im not so sure about that. According to history the churches seemed to fall away one at a time. First the Assyrian Church, then the OOC then the RCC. Protestants fell away from the RCC who were already fallen away from the EOC. So technically they didn’t fall away from the apostolic Church of God. So it seems like the remnant fell away at different times.

 

[Albion]

However, you're describing historic schisms or heresies. Not "apostasy."

The claim that some religious bodies on the fringe make in order to explain away their recent origin and unusual doctrines is to say that the original church really did apostasize, i.e. abandon the faith or lose its genuineness, after a few generations.

But they also maintain that God in his eternal plan provided that the true church would be reborn at some time in the future--in other words, them!

This is how these religious groups connect themselves (in theory only) to the founding of the Christian religion, even though what they teach may be significantly different in key ways from both the Apostolic Church and functioning Christianity as it was during the centuries between the alleged apostasy and the 'new start.'

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Im not so sure about that. According to history the churches seemed to fall away one at a time. First the Assyrian Church, then the OOC then the RCC. Protestants fell away from the RCC who were already fallen away from the EOC. So technically they didn’t fall away from the apostolic Church of God. So it seems like the remnant fell away at different times.

God's church is not a denomination, it is those who follow His Word and the teachings of the Bible. According to scriptures it's people who also keep God's commandments. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12. Even in the dark ages when bibles were not available to the public, God still had a remnant.

 

[Fidelibus]

1. Yes of course I believe Yeshua founded the church.

Then you also believe Jesus' claim that his Church never would be overcome, "Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:19)...Yes?

2. I will give you a couple examples of a big differences.
A. The early church had all things in common.

Could you give some examples?

B. The early church operated in greater spiritual power.

Again, could you give some examples?

3. I believe that the Church fell into apostasy in the early centuries.

Saying the apostasy happened "in the early centuries" paints the time frame in a very wide brush, could you be more specific in the time frame you believed it to have taken place? Could you also point to any definitive historical event of it?

4. I cannot discuss my full thoughts on the RCC openly because it would violate the forums rules so if you want to have that discussion we would have to do so through PM.

Or maybe you don't want your thoughts of the Catholic Church to be refuted in a open forum.


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Albion]

Then you also believe Jesus' claim that his Church never would be overcome, "Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:19)...Yes?

Have the gates of hell "prevailed" against it? Well, no. Christianity is the world's largest religion. By far.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God's church is not a denomination, it is those who follow His Word and the teachings of the Bible. According to scriptures it's people who also keep God's commandments. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12. Even in the dark ages when bibles were not available to the public, God still had a remnant.

Your confusing the body of Christ with the Church. They are not the same thing. The body of Christ is those who are devoted servants of Christ who abide in Him. The Church is the people within the body of Christ who continue to preach the apostolic teachings. One example would be the Corinthians who were saved and in the body of Christ but they were still carnal and unable to discern matters of the Spirit. The Church is to teach the body of Christ thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is only one Church of God because there is only one truth of His word. Churches who disagree on the interpretation of God’s word cannot all be the Church of God but believers within those churches can still be in the body of Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

But the main point is that the original church was non-denominational. In time, formal and separate church institutions developed. To that extent, the original church no longer exists.

Also, the original church did not have anywhere near the number of doctrines that virtually every denomination today does.

I disagree, the EOC never developed, it was established by the apostles and held to the teachings of the apostles.