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Can you find the Church?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Fidelibus, May 28, 2021.

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  1. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    you made an objectively false statement. Now if you said you believe this happens, then I would not have commented the way I did.
     
  2. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    :scratch:
     
  3. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    Sure I am, can't understand why you would think I couldn't. However, why would you want me to do something that you are perfectly able to do yourself? Besides, if you were to research on your own what the Catholic Church believes and teaches about theses passages or any passage in Scripture you would be more inclined to learn and retain the information.. ;)

    In doing so, although there are many, I would suggest sites such as The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), EWTN, Catholicanswers.com. At Catholicanswers.com, they have a daily worldwide radio program where the hosts answer any questions about the Catholic faith. They often have an 'open forum' where they encourage non-Catholics such as yourself to call in for answers regarding Catholicism. So, why not give them a call?

    If and when you do this research on the many different Catholic web-sites, what you will find, is that you will realize that the answers may be worded differently, but are of the same beliefs and understandings with a common authority. (The Holy See) Unlike, if you were to get answers from the web-sites of the thousands different Protestant and non-denominational churches and sects on their beliefs and teachings, you would find just as many different answers. Something we see regularly, right here on this Christian Forum.


    Have a Blessed Day!
     
  4. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you are right, it is what "You" posted! What you failed to do though, is show where in any of those prayers, poems, or writings where it says that Catholics are to place their trust in the Blessed Virgin Mary only, and not God! Sheesh!!


    Have a Blessed Day!
     
  5. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    Here -

    My Queen, My Mother, I offer
    myself entirely to thee.
    And to show my devotion to thee,
    I offer thee this day, my eyes,
    my ears, my mouth, my heart,
    my whole being without reserve.


    Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,
    keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
    Amen.
     
  6. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    I dont see where it says or suggestes that this someone is surrendering themselves to Mary alone.
     
  7. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Wait a minute. If the prayer attributes to Mary the power to make things happen AND there is no reference to her simply being an intercessor with God, bringing the petition to Him...

    the concern about there being an improper devotion to Mary is warranted.
     
  8. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    No - that is your logic. I trust Jesus and all that He taught, which of course includes what you call "the Our Father" - the Lord's Prayer, and that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us when we know not what to pray for. If you study scripture with your focus on Him and on Whom He is, instead of on Mary and what the Catholic church has developed and taught you about her, your 'logic' will pale in the light of His Truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  9. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    This is the Holy Spirit's domain when you are born again and Mary has nothing at all to do with it.
     
  10. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    You seem perplexed....you pointed out an error in grammar that I made and I replied thanking you for doing so and pointed out a couple of your own.
     
  11. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    Sheesh! The words of those prayers speak for themselves.
     
  12. Valletta

    Valletta Well-Known Member

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    Too bad you weren't around to set the Apostles straight. God often works through people, read the 73 books of the Bible.
     
  13. prodromos

    prodromos Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Ripped from the context of Catholic theology, you might have an argument. Understood within the context of Catholic theology, you don't.
     
  14. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    You've missed the point. Catholic theology says one thing, but Catholic practice, fully approved of by that same church regardless of what its official theological statements may say, says something else!
     
  15. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    Say's you.

    The fact remains though, you have still failed to show where in any of those prayers, poems, or writings where it says that Catholics are to place their trust in the Blessed Virgin Mary only, and not God!

    Why is that? I know why...... because of your obvious disdain of the Catholic Church, "you" want, need, or have to read into something that is simply not there! :cool:

    Have a Blessed day!
     
  16. Fidelibus

    Fidelibus Well-Known Member

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    Think so huh? How about we put this supposed "Catholic Practice" ( supposedly "approved" by the Catholic Church?) you speak of to the test. Let's ask the Catholics like myself, here on this Christian Forum:

    1. When reading or reciting the prayers, poems, or writings that have been posted on this thread, asking for Mary's intercession, do you believe that you must place your trust in the Blessed Virgin Mary alone, and not God?

    2. Do you believe that Mary has the power to "do things" all on her own, outside the power of God?


    My response.....

    To the first question....... NO!

    To the second question.....NO!

    Well, so far Albion, this "supposed" Catholic practice you speak of is batting "Zero"! ;)

    Have a Blessed Day!
     
  17. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    really?
     
  18. concretecamper

    concretecamper Member of His Church

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    and every Catholic on this forum would respond as you did.

    But it is easier to perpetuate an unsubstantiated claim than deal with facts.
     
  19. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    I made no false statement and supported what you 'clipped' way back - where it actually shows what I stated to be true.

    Post #462

    Yes and as you can see below, certain Catholics embraced this prayer and by their examples and practices ‘taught’ other Catholics to place their trust in Mary…not God.


    The Popes and Mary Help of Christians

    The Popes and Mary Help of Christians

    Saint Pius V, after the Battle of Lepanto, decided to establish the feast of the Holy Rosary, and that the invocation "Mary Help of Christians" should also be included in the Lauretan Litany;

    Pope Pius VII instituted the feast of Mary Help of Christians, in memory of his return to Rome after being imprisoned in the palace of Fontainebleau by Napoleon Bonaparte;

    Pope John XXIII cultivated a special devotion to the Help of Christians and proclaimed her Patroness of the Council with the titles of Auxilium Christianorume Auxilium Episcoporum;

    St. Paul VI in many circumstances of his life and pontificate manifested a particular devotion to Mary Help of Christians;

    St. John Paul II often went to pray in the chapel of Mary Help of Christians in the church of St. Stanislaus Kostka (Krakow) and it was precisely before the image of the Helper, as a young man, that he took the firm decision to enter the seminary;

    Pope Francis has always affirmed that he learned to love Mary Help of Christians during his childhood.
     
  20. Placemat

    Placemat Member

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    You suggested I read quotes that you posted from your CCC and Canon Law - which I did and actually responded too them, yet when I suggested you read some scripture verses, this is how you responded, in your habitual petulant, accusing manner....

    #463 Fidelibus
    Oh.... meaning,,,, you are suggesting I should check out and believe what "you" and your personal and fallible interpretations/opinions, that have absolutely no authority over me or anyone else, thinks these passages (Eph.1:15-23; Col.1:15-23) may mean, and are subject to error.... right? [​IMG]

    .......and when I replied with this:

    Placemat said:
    They are beautiful scripture verses about our Lord, and I'd love for you to share with me the Catholic church's interpretation of them, or your own if you are permitted to do so. Here I'll post them again for you.

    .....
    you pass it off...seemingly unable to answer on your own. :scratch:
     
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