Can you find the Church?

[Fidelibus]

I think Galatians 5 answers that question.

Could you be more specific why you believe Galatians 5 answers the question?

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Could you be more specific why you believe Galatians 5 answers the question?

Have a Blessed Day!

They were following different teachings from the apostles and as a result they were disconnected from Christ. Now I do admit that this isn’t the best example because while they were still believers in Christ they were trying to seek justification by obedience to the law. So it was because of that aspect that they fell from grace.

 

[Sheila Davis]

I'm talking about the "true Church,"........ i.e., the one started by Christ and founded upon the Apostles.

Jesus did say he was going to build his Church, didn’t he....... (Matt. 16:18)?

Isn’t “the church” spoken of often in Scripture ( Eph.3:10, 5:21–32; Col.1:24; 1 Tim 2: 15)?

Your thoughts?

Have a Blessed day

1st Peter 4:18 and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?
Only two of the seven churches spoken of in the of Revelation had a fairly good report - and this was at the beginning of the churches.
Jesus said he was going to build his Church on the Rock and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. Many will receive redemption - thwarting Lucifer's plan to take all with him.

 

[Fidelibus]

1st Peter 4:18 and if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?

Regarding 1Pet.4:18, Former Protestant and convert to the Catholic Church, Apologist Tim Staples has this to say:

St. Peter says if the righteous scarcely will be saved, what shall it be to those outside? (1 Peter 4:18) We desperately need the Eucharist. Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you (John 6:54). The life the Protestant is experiencing in his church is only coming by his desire for God. He is not receiving the sacramental graces that come only through the sacraments.

Only two of the seven churches spoken of in the of Revelation had a fairly good report - and this was at the beginning of the churches.

This interpretation came from who?

Jesus said he was going to build his Church on the Rock and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.

I believe this one hundred percent!
Scripture also says:

“And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.---[Matthew 18:17] "

"The Church",,,, as in singular!

And

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.---[1 Timothy 3:15]"

Again, "The Church", as in singular!

Which Church do you believe is being spoken of in the singular form in these Scripture passages?

Have a Blessed Day

 

[Albion]

Regarding 1Pet.4:18, Former Protestant and convert to the Catholic Church, Apologist Tim Staples has this to say:

So, not necessarily an objective commentator.

Again, "The Church", as in singular!

Which Church do you believe is being spoken of in the singular form in these Scripture passages?

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.---[1 Timothy 3:15]"

Well, there is a denomination named "The Church of the Living God." I don't belong to it, but your explanation about how we are to identify the true church seems to make this one a leading candidate.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Regarding 1Pet.4:18, Former Protestant and convert to the Catholic Church, Apologist Tim Staples has this to say:

This interpretation came from who?

I believe this one hundred percent!
Scripture also says:

"The Church",,,, as in singular!

And Again, "The Church", as in singular!

Which Church do you believe is being spoken of in the singular form in these Scripture passages?

Have a Blessed Day

The local church, of course. If a brother has something against another brother he is to go to him in person. If the problem is not resolved, then he is to bring two or three others. If they cannot resolve it then the matter is to be laid before the church (a larger body of believers) who will judge the matter.

There is no hint that this is a religious bureaucracy headquartered in Rome, Italy.

 

[Fidelibus]

The local church, of course.

Really? Where does it say this in the Bible?

Besides what if this local church of yours has completely different belief system than yours? Would you still believe it to be the pillar and ground of the truth?

If a brother has something against another brother he is to go to him in person. If the problem is not resolved, then he is to bring two or three others. If they cannot resolve it then the matter is to be laid before the church (a larger body of believers) who will judge the matter.

Again, what if this local church you speak of has completely different belief system than what you believe? If you have a problem with someone you can't get resolved, are you going to take the matter as you said..."to be laid before this church (a larger body of believers) who will judge the matter?"

This kind of creates a conundrum among Protestants and non-denominationals wouldn't you think?

As for myself, it does not create a problem at all. My nearest local Church is St Vincent de Paul Catholic Church in which I am a member!

There is no hint that this is a religious bureaucracy headquartered in Rome, Italy.

Ah yes...... But Vatican City, Italy.... where the Holy Catholic Church is headquartered is a whole different story. Thanks for bringing that to our attention!


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Fidelibus]

So, not necessarily an objective commentator.

Compared to whom?

Well, there is a denomination named "The Church of the Living God."

Okay

I don't belong to it, but your explanation about how we are to identify the true church seems to make this one a leading candidate.

First off, it's not my explanation, it's St. Paul's explanation to Timothy.

Secondly, 'you' may think the church you referenced ......"The Church of the Living God" (again, by St. Paul's explanation, not mine) seems to be a leading candidate as the true church, but I sure don't.

Reason being, this denomination wasn't founded by Jesus Christ, but was founded in the year of 1889 in Wrightsville, AR. by a fella named William Christian, not Jesus.

In 1 Tim. 3:15, what two ways do you believe St. Paul defines the Church?

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Really? Where does it say this in the Bible?

Besides what if this local church of yours has completely different belief system than yours? Would you still believe it to be the pillar and ground of the truth?
Again, what if this local church you speak of has completely different belief system than what you believe? If you have a problem with someone you can't get resolved, are you going to take the matter as you said..."to be laid before this church (a larger body of believers) who will judge the matter?"
This kind of creates a conundrum among Protestants and non-denominationals wouldn't you think?
As for myself, it does not create a problem at all. My nearest local Church is St Vincent de Paul Catholic Church in which I am a member!
Ah yes...... But Vatican City, Italy.... where the Holy Catholic Church is headquartered is a whole different story. Thanks for bringing that to our attention!
Have a Blessed Day!

If you suppose that the pillar and ground of truth rests with a self-professedly infallible leader of a huge religious bureaucracy, you are most assuredly wrong. It rests with Jesus Christ alone and His word, the Bible, alone.

 

[Fidelibus]

If you suppose that the pillar and ground of truth rests with a self-professedly infallible leader of a huge religious bureaucracy, you are most assuredly wrong.

Well no, you would 'assuredly and supposedly' be wrong. Let's take a look at 1 Tim. 3:15 again.

But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

St. Paul is informing Timothy that "The Church" (again in singular form) is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not as you are mistakenly claiming some single "self-professedly infallible leader of a huge religious bureaucracy." (That sounds more like some multi-millionaire televangelist!) However, in Catholicism there is the Magisterium which is the official teaching office of the Church, including the pope and the bishops in union with him.

It rests with Jesus Christ alone and His word, the Bible, alone.

As an adherent of the belief in the 'Bible alone' could you please show where it says this in the Bible?

Also bbbbbbb, still waiting for the bible verse where you said on post # 326:

If a brother has something against another brother he is to go to him in person. If the problem is not resolved, then he is to bring two or three others. If they cannot resolve it then the matter is to be laid before the church (a larger body of believers) who will judge the matter.

That we are supposed to take it too.......

The local church, of course.

Again, book, chapter, and verse where it says this please.

Have a Blessed Day!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well no, you would 'assuredly and supposedly' be wrong. Let's take a look at 1 Tim. 3:15 again.

St. Paul is informing Timothy that "The Church" (again in singular form) is the pillar and foundation of truth. Not as you are mistakenly claiming some single "self-professedly infallible leader of a huge religious bureaucracy." (That sounds more like some multi-millionaire televangelist!) However, in Catholicism there is the Magisterium which is the official teaching office of the Church, including the pope and the bishops in union with him.

As an adherent of the belief in the 'Bible alone' could you please show where it says this in the Bible?

Also bbbbbbb, still waiting for the bible verse where you said on post # 326:

That we are supposed to take it too.......

Again, book, chapter, and verse where it says this please.

Have a Blessed Day!

15 “Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[Fidelibus]

15 “Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

 

[Fidelibus]

15 “Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

But this is not what "you" said. You said we are supposed to "take it to the local church, of course." I do not see these words in the passages you posted.

 

[bbbbbbb]

But this is not what "you" said. You said we are supposed to "take it to the local church, of course." I do not see these words in the passages you posted.

So, do you write to Rome with this complaint?

 

[Fidelibus]

So, do you write to Rome with this complaint?

I will be more than happy to answer this, soon after you address my questions from posts # 327 and 330.

 

[concretecamper]

15 “Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

what a great scripture verse that tells us the church is Authoritative and One.

I wonder if a Baptist sins against a Methodist, which church rules?

 

[Placemat]

what a great scripture verse that tells us the church is Authoritative and One.

I wonder if a Baptist sins against a Methodist, which church rules?

And what happens when the 'church' that is supposedly the 'Authoritative and One' doesn't listen and does nothing about it as the Catholic church did with all the pedophile priests?

 

[Fidelibus]

And what happens when the 'church' that is supposedly the 'Authoritative and One' doesn't listen and does nothing about it as the Catholic church did with all the pedophile priests?

It is a mistake to think that the sexual abuse crisis in the Church disproves that the Catholic Church is what it claims to be. God has only us sinful, rebellious humans to work with. Many bishops and priests have been lax in their duty (to put it mildly), but they will stand accountable before God. The Bible says, “Let not many of you become teachers” (Jas. 3:1). People will fail, but the Church will endure.......not because Catholics are better than anyone else but because it is God’s will that “the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

Yes, the priest sexual abuse scandal is indeed a shameful, sinful, horrible, and disgusting chapter in the history of the Catholic Church. Every priest who preyed on and abused any child, in any manner, did an absolutely horrible thing and should be justly punished for their actions. However, whatever its past record, the Catholic Church in the U.S. has made unparalleled strides in educating their flock about child sexual abuse and ensuring that children are safe in Catholic environments.

Over the past years, Catholic parishes have trained more than 2.1 million clergy, employees, and volunteers about how to create safe environments and prevent child sexual abuse. More than 5.2 million children have also been taught to protect themselves, and churches have run criminal background checks on more than 2 million volunteers, employees, educators, clerics and seminarians.

With that being said, could you name a single Protestant denomination or non-denominational church/sect that has not had a minister or ministers commit sexual abuse? Or, one that has not had a minister or ministers commit murder, steal, lie, cheat, engage in adultery, or any one of a number of sins against God and man? Maybe starting with your own?


For some reason, John 8:7 come to mind.


Have a Blessed Day!

 

[Placemat]

It is a mistake to think that the sexual abuse crisis in the Church disproves that the Catholic Church is what it claims to be. God has only us sinful, rebellious humans to work with. Many bishops and priests have been lax in their duty (to put it mildly), but they will stand accountable before God. The Bible says, “Let not many of you become teachers” (Jas. 3:1). People will fail, but the Church will endure.......not because Catholics are better than anyone else but because it is God’s will that “the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

Doesn't address what I posted.

Yes, the priest sexual abuse scandal is indeed a shameful, sinful, horrible, and disgusting chapter in the history of the Catholic Church. Every priest who preyed on and abused any child, in any manner, did an absolutely horrible thing and should be justly punished for their actions. However, whatever its past record, the Catholic Church in the U.S. has made unparalleled strides in educating their flock about child sexual abuse and ensuring that children are safe in Catholic environments.

Over the past years, Catholic parishes have trained more than 2.1 million clergy, employees, and volunteers about how to create safe environments and prevent child sexual abuse. More than 5.2 million children have also been taught to protect themselves, and churches have run criminal background checks on more than 2 million volunteers, employees, educators, clerics and seminarians.

Sounds impressive, until you realise the motivation behind it all - they got caught and couldn't cover it up any more - not so commendable.

With that being said, could you name a single Protestant denomination or non-denominational church/sect that has not had a minister or ministers commit sexual abuse? Or, one that has not had a minister or ministers commit murder, steal, lie, cheat, engage in adultery, or any one of a number of sins against God and man? Maybe starting with your own?
For some reason, John 8:7 come to mind.
Have a Blessed Day!

That reason being, is that you attempted to make it appear that I at some point stated that no other Christian organisation ever had "sinful, rebellious humans" that committed 'sexual abuse, murder, theft, lieing, cheating, engaged in adultery or any one of a number of sins against God and man'...and I didn't. What you have done is referred to as 'side-stepping'/'deflecting'.

My question was specifically about the supposed 'Authoritative and One' church that Catholics are to take disputes too; you know, the "pillar and ground of truth".

And what happens when the 'church' that is supposedly the 'Authoritative and One' doesn't listen and does nothing about it as the Catholic church did with all the pedophile priests?

 

[Navair2]

I'm talking about the "true Church,"........ i.e., the one started by Christ and founded upon the Apostles.

Jesus did say he was going to build his Church, didn’t he....... (Matt. 16:18)?

Isn’t “the church” spoken of often in Scripture ( Eph.3:10, 5:21–32; Col.1:24; 1 Tim 2: 15)?

Your thoughts?

Have a Blessed day

I assume you mean the spiritual "building" composed of Spirit-led, blood-bought believers who love each other, are willing to lay down their lives for each other, and tremble at God's words because they mean more to them than man's words...

The one that God has miraculously called out of spiritual darkness and into the light of His truth, and believe, know and understand the Scriptures, live godly and edifying lives, that has Holy Spirit-ordained elders and ministers that preach and teach the very words of God and speak the things that become, or are suited to, sound biblical doctrine in every way.

The one that rebukes error, confronts sin in its members, and obeys the Lord in all matters of faith and practice, all the while remaining separate from this world and its ways and encouraging its members to do the same.

Where no one is perfect, but is being made so by the power of God and they all exhibit true and lasting spiritual fruit that is pleasing to the Lord, and everyone is allowed to exercise their spiritual gifts unhindered by unbelieving men...


I've been looking for that my whole life since the age of 12, and haven't found it yet after 43+ years.

In fact, within 30 miles of my house in all directions, my local area has well over 300 such places that claim to be churches, and not a single one of them even comes close to what I've described.
Nine of them are in my own hometown of 5,200, and all of them claim to preach and teach the truth.

When you find the church, please let me know;
I'd love to meet them and for the Lord to use me to give them whatever they need.