can you be a "moral" person...

[blackribbon]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality? If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

 

[JustMeSee]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality? If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

Serial killers typically have a emotional or psychological problem in the brain that contributes to their desire to kill. It is an abnormality.

Humans created religions using the basis of community moral and ethics, among other things.

Right or wrong does not have to be based on a deity, guardian, or society. Though, quite often these are strong influences.

Why do you have a moral code that is extended beyond the writings of any religious text?

 

[quatona]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality?

If you can base your morals on the religion of your choice you can base it on whatever idea of your choice, quite fine.

If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

Pretty much on what everyone hopefully base their morals on: A mixture of considering the well-being of ourselves and our common beings, of empathy, of our idea what makes this world a more enjoyable place and what´s required to get there, and of a certain amount of common sense.

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...

The primary goal of having moral stance isn´t - where I come from - to be able to judge others. It´s more like a means to guide myself.

say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....

Why would I have to judge him? I just don´t want people to be killed.
I´m glad, though, that you picked a moral stance you and I agree on.
A much harder question would be: What - other than the appeal to a God who commands people to be serial killers - would allow to hold the moral view that serial killing is right/good?

if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

Well, people have their ideas of what are good things to do and what aren´t, no matter whom or what (alleged) source they may ascribe these ideas to. People can´t be kept from having their ideas and people can´t be kept from believing whatever source they believe them to have. So I am not quite sure I understand what you mean by "allowing them..." or what "disallowing/prohibiting such ideas" would mean, practically.

What, more importantly, I don´t seem to understand at all: How you arrived at the conclusion that claiming "this is what the God of my concept says" exempts you from being just another person who has his individual idea of morality. I.e. the relevance of religion for the question you asked.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality?

Yes, of course. Even if one is mistaken about the justification for morality, one can still be a moral person.

If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

In a nutshell, the objective requirements of life as a rational individual with a complex psychology. These requirements are purely natural -- they refer to what one naturally is as an individual, and what one needs to survive and flourish as a human being.

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

Such people fail to have a accurate comprehension of their nature and needs as human individuals, and therefore have little skill at selecting and prioritizing their values.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[stevevw]

If we base our morality on human views isn't this risky. Humans are fallible creatures. With all the good intentions we tend to get it wrong. What we may think is good can end up causing us more problems in the long run. How do we know that what we decide is right and wrong is absolutely the correct thing.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Dexter had Harry's code but that got nixed when he realized Harry had feet of clay. God doesn't have feet of clay.

 

[JustMeSee]

If we base our morality on human views isn't this risky. Humans are fallible creatures. With all the good intentions we tend to get it wrong. What we may think is good can end up causing us more problems in the long run. How do we know that what we decide is right and wrong is absolutely the correct thing.

This would be a good question to ask the liar Christians who shelters Jewish people during WW II .

 

[prov1810]

This would be a good question to ask the liar Christians who shelters Jewish people during WW II .

Preserving life and telling the truth are both good, but preserving life is the greater good.

Graded absolutism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JustMeSee]

Dexter had Harry's code but that got nixed when he realized Harry had feet of clay. God doesn't have feet of clay.

Dexter, a fictitious book and show, was highly disfunctional due to childhood trauma. The entire series was based on his struggles to do right. There are real world examples of this, but religion often warps their sense of reality.

 

[blackribbon]

So makes something "moral"? If I do something and I don't feel guilty about it, does that make it "moral"?

For example, is it "moral" to drive drunk or high?

 

[Ken-1122]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality?

Yes

If what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

I define morality as the ability to understand the consequences of actions and how they affect your neighbor; and it starts from the position that what is harmful to your neighbor is bad and what is helpful to your neighbor is good.

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ...

What a serial killer does is harmful to his neighbor, so that is bad/immoral

if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

That’s why the law does not allow people to do that. The law decides right/wrong (legally) and it is enforced by the police who represent the law.


Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

So makes something "moral"? If I do something and I don't feel guilty about it, does that make it "moral"?

For example, is it "moral" to drive drunk or high?

You act as if morality is objective. It isn't; it is subjective.

Ken

 

[Eudaimonist]

You act as if morality is objective. It isn't; it is subjective.

So driving drunk or high is not a bad thing to do?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Ken-1122]

So driving drunk or high is not a bad thing to do?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Of course it is! It's dangerous.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

If we base our morality on human views isn't this risky. Humans are fallible creatures. With all the good intentions we tend to get it wrong. What we may think is good can end up causing us more problems in the long run. How do we know that what we decide is right and wrong is absolutely the correct thing.

If you start from the position that Humans are the most supreme being in existence (that we know of) to base our moral standards outside of humanity would be basing it upon an inferior standard. While true, humans are not perfect, we do the best we can

Ken

 

[blackribbon]

I actually believe that morality is more objective than subjective because I believe that it has a basis beyond how we feel or believe, but rather is measured against God's law....which I believe is a actual standard, like a ruler or a scale.

If you believe it is subjective, then every time a person makes it home safely after driving drunk or high, then it really was morally acceptable that time...because nobody else was affected or hurt.

 

[blackribbon]

If you start from the position that Humans are the most supreme being in existence (that we know of) to base our moral standards outside of humanity would be basing it upon an inferior standard. While true, humans are not perfect, we do the best we can

Ken

Considering that this is Christian forum, I don't believe that this is a "given" assumption. I do believe in a perfect Being and humans are not it.

 

[Paradoxum]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality?

Yes.

If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

I don't base my morality on a book. I try to reason what is moral.

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

I don't think whatever someone makes up it correct.

So makes something "moral"? If I do something and I don't feel guilty about it, does that make it "moral"?

For example, is it "moral" to drive drunk or high?

Yeah, it's wrong to drug drive.

I actually believe that morality is more objective than subjective because I believe that it has a basis beyond how we feel or believe, but rather is measured against God's law....which I believe is a actual standard, like a ruler or a scale.

I also think morality could be objective. Basing it on God's ruling seems subjective though. Why does God say murder is wrong? Does he have a reason; is it more than opinion?

 

[CryOfALion]

Can you be a "moral" person without a religious base for that morality? If so, what do you base your measure of "right or wrong" on?

How do you judge others for being "immoral"...say a serial killer who actually "gets off to killing people" (is missing the part of his psyche that allows him to feel shame or guilt) ....if he doesn't think what he is doing is wrong, is it really immoral if we allows individuals to define personal moral standards?

Morality is a set of principles that humans who will die follow. The prefix of morality means death. And, morals are subjunctive at best. One mortal person's goodness is another moral person's evil.

Morality is not universal, and it is not frozen in. Religion is an institution. Anyone can be "moral" according to either personal or fraternal codes. Spirituality does not follow, or care for morality, as the spirit doesn't die, so the same MORality applied to spirituality is improper. So, I would say you can't adhere to the fickle essentials that define morality, and also be spiritual.

 

[blackribbon]

Morality is a set of principles that humans who will die follow. The prefix of morality means death. And, morals are subjunctive at best. One mortal person's goodness is another moral person's evil.

Morality is not universal, and it is not frozen in. Religion is an institution. Anyone can be "moral" according to either personal or fraternal codes. Spirituality does not follow, or care for morality, as the spirit doesn't die, so the same MORality applied to spirituality is improper. So, I would say you can't adhere to the fickle essentials that define morality, and also be spiritual.

MorTALity has to do with death. Morality is a measure of what is good and bad. If you really believe that one person's goodness is another's evilness, then why even label anything as "moral" ... and yet we do.

Religion is an institution based on beliefs...it is those beliefs that determine morality...and I believe that what happens to the spirit is very much determined by moral behavior. Even non-Christian belief systems follow this as in those that believe in reincarnation believe that your next life form depends on how you lived this one. And the concept of "karma" is also based on living within the defintions of a "moral" existance based on Hindu or Buddist measures of morality.

In the absence of a measure of morality, I would say...it doesn't exist...and therefore, no one can be moral or immoral because it is subjective and situational. But in the presence of a religious context, it is usually is a reasonably objective label.