Can we eat pork, shellfish and crustaceans? And what about blood in meat?

Al Touthentop

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Paul never says the OT was abolished or that the law as written by Moses was abolished. I think we all know that.

Neither did I say the old testament was abolished. But Paul most certainly said that the old covenant (law of Moses) was abolished. So did Jesus when he told his apostles that the Lord's Supper was the feast of his new covenant.

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

What is unclear about this to you?
 
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HARK!

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And then he said this which you dismiss out of hand.

I didn't dismiss it. I posted it.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."


Until what is fulfilled? The Passover of which he was to be the sacrifice.

You tell me, until what was fulfilled. A short while ago you were telling me that this was the Passover Seder. Now you're telling me that he was celebrating with the Passover sacrifice; when he was the sacrifice; but he wouldn't be sacrifice until the next day; which would still be yet another day before Passover?

Really?

19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

The word bread used in this verse is a correct tranlation. The Greek word is artos, or leavened bread.. The Greek word for unleavened bread is azumos.


Yahshua broke leavened bread that night.

There was no lamb, no bitter herbs, and no haggadah. Don't tell me that Yahshua broke YHWH's Torah.

He instituted a new feast because with his crucifixion he would end the old covenant and this new 'feast' would be what would replace the Passover feast.

Nonsense

“With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

Yahshua says that he will eat Pesach in YHWH's kingdom.

What does YHWH say?

“And this day shall be unto youfor a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD {YHWH} throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:14)


But you keep contradicting Paul

No I don't. Maybe you just don't understand Paul.

I'm done conversing with somebody who rejects the scriptures.

I don't reject scripture. If you're done; why did you post this?
 
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BobRyan

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Neither did I say the old testament was abolished. But Paul most certainly said that the old covenant (law of Moses) was abolished.

the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

Hence
- it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even though that command cannot be found in the NT

- it is still a command to "Love God with all your heart" Duet 6:5 even though that command is not found in the NT after the cross.

-it is still a commandment for gentiles to "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12 - even though that command is not found in Acts 15

- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" even though the saints on the New Earth are saved under the New Covenant.

"Do NOT think I have come to abolish the LAW - I did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill" Matthew 5

"The LAW of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 is the NEW Covenant and is "unchanged" from OT to NT as we see it in Hebrews 8:6-11. The "Law of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers was in the LAW of Moses.
 
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BobRyan

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Neither did I say the old testament was abolished. But Paul most certainly said that the old covenant (law of Moses) was abolished.

the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

Hence
- it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even though that command cannot be found in the NT

- it is still a command to "Love God with all your heart" Duet 6:5 even though that command is not found in the NT after the cross.

-it is still a commandment for gentiles to "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12 - even though that command is not found in Acts 15

- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" even though the saints on the New Earth are saved under the New Covenant.

"Do NOT think I have come to abolish the LAW - I did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill" Matthew 5

"The LAW of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 is the NEW Covenant and is "unchanged" from OT to NT as we see it in Hebrews 8:6-11. The "Law of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers was in the LAW of Moses.

the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

It is in fact the same thing.

Then for "the rest of us"

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- still matters.
"Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12, Eph 6:1-2 -- still matters
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22 -- still matters.
"I will write My Law on their heart" New Covenant - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-11 -- still matters.
"fear God and keep His Commandments" Eccl 12:13, Rev 14:7 -- still matters.

And the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2
 
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Al Touthentop

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the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

Hence
- it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even though that command cannot be found in the NT

But not because the old law's command but because of Jesus' new command.

- it is still a command to "Love God with all your heart" Duet 6:5 even though that command is not found in the NT after the cross.

That command is found in 1 John where he says that love of God is obedience to his commands. It's part of the new covenant.

-it is still a commandment for gentiles to "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12 - even though that command is not found in Acts 15

But it is found in the new testament in Ephesians under the new covennt.

- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" even though the saints on the New Earth are saved under the New Covenant.

We keep the new sabbath which is the Lord's day.

"Do NOT think I have come to abolish the LAW - I did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill" Matthew 5

He fulfilled it and nailed it to the cross Just as Paul wrote.

"The LAW of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 is the NEW Covenant and is "unchanged" from OT to NT as we see it in Hebrews 8:6-11. The "Law of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers was in the LAW of Moses.

And that law was abolished at the cross.


Then for "the rest of us"

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- still matters.
"Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12, Eph 6:1-2 -- still matters
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22 -- still matters.
"I will write My Law on their heart" New Covenant - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-11 -- still matters.
"fear God and keep His Commandments" Eccl 12:13, Rev 14:7 -- still matters.

And the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

All part of the new covenant. We don't go back to the old lest we fall from grace. If we're under the law of Moses, then we still have to sacrifice animals and circumcise on the eighth day. We don't because that law has been replaced by a new covenant, the "cutting" required, our baptism.
 
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BobRyan

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Neither did I say the old testament was abolished. But Paul most certainly said that the old covenant (law of Moses) was abolished.

the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

Hence
- it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 even though that command cannot be found in the NT

- it is still a command to "Love God with all your heart" Duet 6:5 even though that command is not found in the NT after the cross.

-it is still a commandment for gentiles to "Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12 - even though that command is not found in Acts 15

- for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" even though the saints on the New Earth are saved under the New Covenant.

"Do NOT think I have come to abolish the LAW - I did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill" Matthew 5

"The LAW of God written on the heart" Jer 31:31-34 is the NEW Covenant and is "unchanged" from OT to NT as we see it in Hebrews 8:6-11. The "Law of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers was in the LAW of Moses.

the Old Covenant is "an agreement" a set of "conditions" - and is not the same thing as the LAW of Moses.

It is in fact the same thing.

Then for "the rest of us"

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- still matters.
"Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12, Eph 6:1-2 -- still matters
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22 -- still matters.
"I will write My Law on their heart" New Covenant - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-11 -- still matters.
"fear God and keep His Commandments" Eccl 12:13, Rev 14:7 -- still matters.

And the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

But not because the old law's command but because of Jesus' new command.

When challenged by His enemies in Matthew 22 - Jesus quotes Moses -- Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 -- and so even the Jews agree that the statement is "sola scriptura true".

Luke 10:25-28 Jesus challenges them with the same test and they two give the correct Biblical answer -
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.

Once again just as Christ said in Matt 22 regarding the LAW of Moses - we see Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 - again only this time it is the Jews themselves admitting to scripture and the truth of God's Word.

Here is the actual New Covenant for those who have not read it recently -

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Unchanged in the NT.

Hebrews 8
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts
.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”

Heb 13
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Mal 3
6 “For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
 
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BobRyan

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We don't go back to the old lest we fall from grace. .

There is no such thing as "be careful NOT to go back to refusing to take God's name in vain for if you do start choosing to obey the command to not take God's name in vain - you will have fallen from grace"

for "the rest of us"

"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- still matters.
"Honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12, Eph 6:1-2 -- still matters
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5, Matt 22 -- still matters.
"I will write My Law on their heart" New Covenant - Jer 31:31-33, Heb 8:6-11 -- still matters.
"fear God and keep His Commandments" Eccl 12:13, Rev 14:7 -- still matters.

And the 5th commandment is still "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

So then "the rest of us" are free to "notice" that those commands are in both OT and NT without any condemnation at all of the OT which the NT saints call "Scripture" and "The Word of God"
 
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BobRyan

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We keep the new sabbath which is the Lord's day.
.

1. You are right to say the Sabbath is the "Lord's Day" for scripture says "the Sabbath a delight, THE holy day of the Lord" Isaiah 58:13

2. The Lord's Day - "The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

3. The Sabbath is the 4th commandment

But there is no "new sabbath" text in scripture...

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 - for all eternity , after the cross, in the New Earth.
 
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BobRyan

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But not because the old law's command but because of Jesus' new command.

When challenged by His enemies in Matthew 22 - Jesus quotes Moses -- Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 -- and so even the Jews agree that the statement is "sola scriptura true".

Luke 10:25-28 Jesus challenges them with the same test and they two give the correct Biblical answer -
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.

Once again just as Christ said in Matt 22 regarding the LAW of Moses - we see Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:18 - again only this time it is the Jews themselves admitting to scripture and the truth of God's Word.

Here is the actual New Covenant for those who have not read it recently -

Jer 31:31-33
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Unchanged in the NT.

Hebrews 8
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts
.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For all will know Me,
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 “For I will be merciful to their iniquities,
And I will remember their sins no more.”


And that law was abolished at the cross..

For the New Covenant -- I quote scripture -- you merely quote "you".

Heb 13
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Mal 3
6 “For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
 
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BobRyan

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But not because the old law's command but because of Jesus' new command.

This is Jesus' actual command when it comes to "scripture" and "the Word of God" vs the vain traditions of man.

Mark 7
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commands of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Heb 13
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Mal 3
6 “For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Gal 3:8 "THE Gospel was preached to Abraham"

Matt 24 "THIS Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world and THEN shall the end come"
 
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BobRyan

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4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law (of Moses); you have fallen from grace.

Falsely accusing someone of "attempting to be justified by the law" simply because they admit the NT truth that the NT points out the Commandments of God still are valid - and that includes commandments about not taking God's name in vain - is to misread entirely Galatians 5.

Gal 5
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Paul did NOT say "every man who refuses to take God's name in vain - You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Paul did NOT say "every man who chooses to honor father and mother -- You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

No such distortion can be eisegeted into that text.

Paul is rather focused on - the gentiles being circumcised in response to Jewish christians claiming that they could not be saved unless they were circumcised Jews. (a man-made tradition that was not true in OT or NT).

hint. Paul had Timothy circumcised.

More bible. .. less traditions of man.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
 
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Al Touthentop

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Falsely accusing someone of "attempting to be justified by the law" simply because they admit the NT truth that the NT points out the Commandments of God still are valid - and that includes commandments about not taking God's name in vain - is to misread entirely Galatians 5.

Gal 5
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4

Quoting scripture is a false accusation?

Paul is saying there that if you go back to the law of Moses, you have to also sacrifice animals. The whole thing, not just circumcision.
 
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Bob S

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2Cor3: 14 Not only Moses’ face was veiled, but his people’s minds and understanding were veiled and blinded too. Even now when the Scripture is read it seems as though Jewish hearts and minds are covered by a thick veil, because they cannot see and understand the real meaning of the Scriptures. For this veil of misunderstanding can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings their hearts are blind and they think that obeying the Ten Commandments is the way to be saved.

Deut5:
30 ‘Go, tell them to return to their tents. 31 But you stay here with me so that I may give you all the commands, decrees and laws that you are to teach them to follow in the land I am giving them to possess.’

32 So be careful to do what the Lord your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left. 33 Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.


God then gave Moses the remainder of the covenant commands that Israel was to heed and live by.
 
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2Cor3: 14 Not only Moses’ face was veiled, but his people’s minds and understanding were veiled and blinded too. .

Moses stands "with Christ" in person , in glory , before the cross - in Matthew 17
Moses had the Gospel - "preached to them just as it was to us also" Hebrews 4;1-2
"The Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8 and "there is only one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9
 
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4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law (of Moses); you have fallen from grace.

Falsely accusing someone of "attempting to be justified by the law" simply because they admit the NT truth that the NT points out the Commandments of God still are valid - and that includes commandments about not taking God's name in vain - is to misread entirely Galatians 5.

Gal 5
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Paul did NOT say "every man who refuses to take God's name in vain - You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Paul did NOT say "every man who chooses to honor father and mother -- You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

No such distortion can be eisegeted into that text.

Paul is rather focused on - the gentiles being circumcised in response to Jewish christians claiming that they could not be saved unless they were circumcised Jews. (a man-made tradition that was not true in OT or NT).

hint. Paul had Timothy circumcised.

More bible. .. less traditions of man.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Quoting scripture is a false accusation?

It "can be" false accusation if you are simply ignoring every ounce of context and randomly pointing it.

Certainly that is a possibility.

Paul is not saying there that if you go back to the law of Moses and choose to "not take God's name in vain" in honor of scripture in EX 20:7 -- that you are "fallen from Grace".

This point could not be more obvious.

, you have to also sacrifice animals.

No text says that if you choose "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18 in honor of Gods Word - then you must also sacrifice animals.

I think we all know that.
 
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We sure can,We no longer live by old testament law.
1. NT saints call what you are dismissing "scripture", "The Word of God"
2. "they studied the SCRIPTURES daily to see IF those things spoken by Paul - were so" Acts 17:11
3. "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16

Bible details so obvious the "Baptist Confession of Faith" freely admits to it as does the "Westminster Confession of Faith"

Paul refers to it as "the Holy Spirit says" Hebrews 3 -- when quoting "scripture"

More Bible... less traditions of man please.

“Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:


Jesus said --

Mark 7
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Matt 22
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the great and foremost commandment.

39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18

40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

Matt 19
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Lev 19:18
 
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