Can we eat pork now?

tzadik

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I don't know what are you talking about.

God tells us that it is not a sin to eat pork. But He does not say other things you mentioned are not sinful. Actually, God clearly says: don't do it.

Where did God say "it is not a sin to eat pork"?

Last time I checked...in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 he said "don't eat it", "it's not food".
 
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tzadik

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Yup, that's a valid translation of the Greek and so is end. But lets go with yours. So Jesus is the goal of the law. Or as Jesus said He fulfilled the law. Now we know that we can't fulfill the law. The law is against us as Paul says. And by the law shall none be righteous. As I said before, Paul says 6 times we aren't under the law. Because Jesus was the sum/goal of the law. Once the goal is scored, the game if over.

Rom.9 That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works

So are we going to do what the Galations did and and seek to work our own salvation. Paul says righteousness doesn't arrive by the law but by faith. Gal.3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." So the Bible is clear we can't obey the law. Noneone is righteous before God. If we try to be, we will fail and be cursed.

Wonderful writing.

Only one problem...
I am not trying to earn my salvation through keeping God's commandments.

Messiah = Redemption.
Law of God = Instruction.
Redemption does not replace Instruction.
Instruction does not replace Redemption.
They are both extremely beneficial facets of a believer's life.
One saves, the other leads. The Spirit of God leads us according to the Truth of His Word.

This is why Paul tells us in Romans 3:31 that after we come to faith we don't nullify or disregard the law of God, but rather we UPHOLD it and ESTABLISH it.

What many don't see is that Romans 10:4 is present tense.
Messiah IS the Goal/Sum/Totality of the Torah. He was, is and always will be.
When Romans was written, Messiah was long dead, buried and resurrected, yet He continues to be the Goal/Sum/Totality of Torah!
Every single commandment points back to Messiah the Aleph Tav.
 
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tzadik

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Thought I'd check out a few of your verses:
Got to love all the fonts one gets getting verse from different sites! lol
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } Where?
1 Corinthians 7:19?



19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. -- So was anyone circumcised and therefore righteous? Or is the only way one can be righteous thru Jesus?
I don’t wanna give you an entire lesson on 1 Corinthians 7 so I’ll try to nutshell it. The terms “Circumcision” and “Uncircumcision” here refer to a “group”. In this case “circumcision” refers to those descended from Israel and “uncircumcision” refers to non-Israelites (by birth). Paul was instructing both groups to not try to “become what they’re not”..in other words a Circumcised Jew who receives salvation, trying to surgically ‘undo’ circumcision (to be part of the uncircumcision) or a non-circumcised gentile trying to circumcise/proselyte in order to become part of the “circumcision”. Because at the end of the day, whether you were called (saved) as a Gentile or a Jew, what matters is keeping God’s Commandments. Because you are now God’s children, therefore obey His Instruction!


Acts 21:24? 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. --- So are do you keep all the purification rites? All the washings required by the law? If not you are breaking the law.
Actually…there’s no Temple. If I were to offer or perform any of the Temple commandments outside of the Temple, I’d be breaking the Law. Good try though. (You will notice that sacrifices and offerings will be restored in the millennial kingdom –Malachi 3:4, Ezekiel 40-46..why is that?)




Acts 21:20? 20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. – Nice verse, being zealous for the law to believe.
Did you seriously just finish reading the verse?
Step one: They have believed
Step two: They are zealous of the Law of God.
Goes along with Romans 3:31. Salvation doesn’t do away with God’s Instructions. If anything, we can more joyfully concur with the Law of God as Paul did (Romans 7:22) confessing that it’s good and useful for us!
They weren’t saved by the Law of God. The Instructions of God is a path for the righteous to walk in!


Romans 10:5? For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. -- Ya, what did Paul just get done saying? Israel failed to obey the law. Rom.9 Jesus is the only one who fulfilled the law. So you want to set people up to fail. Is anyone more jealous to obey the law than the Pharisees in Jesus’ day?
What?
Did Moses failed to obey the Law? Did David? Did Daniel? Did His disciples? Did the tens and thousands of jewish believers? Did Zechariah and Elisabeth? Did God always have a remnant of believers who DID keep His commandments and walked in His ways? (Like Elijah? Read Romans 11) God has ALWAYS had and always WILL have a remnant of faithful believers, elected by grace who walk in His ways). Yes National Israel has been partially hardened so that you and I can be saved, but even now everyone who believes is grafted in AMONG the very same remnant of believers that contains Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Elijah! They all lived and followed God’s Ways!

John 14:15? “If you love me, keep my commands. Don’t you read in context? 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
Not sure what that context changes…Messiah did not do, or say anything that God did not command Him, perfectly obeying and following God’s Commandments. When He tells us to follow Him, are we supposed to keep God’s Commandments as He did, or create a new religion that chooses whatever Instructions they want to follow instead of the ones Messiah followed? What does 1 John 2:6 say?


Matthew 5:19? Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. … Yup, very good verses. Again read the context. Do no murder, do not commit adultery, do not break your oath. .. very good examples of not loving ones neighbor.
But those are not the ONLY commandments that God has instructed us to keep. Notice verse 19 says the “least!” of God’s commandments. Where do you get off deciding which commandments He is talking about?
 
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xAmadeusx

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Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
 
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xAmadeusx

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:doh:

What part of "sinless" do you not understand?


What part of "Read the bible" do YOU not understand. I didn't say he sinned, he broke many laws such as healing on the sabbath, eating with sinners etc. It was a part of his teachings. He was above the law. (there is a specific verse were he says this but I can't seem to find it right now.)
 
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tzadik

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Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

Deuteronomy 4:2. (read it)

Mark 7 explicitly deals with the eating with unwashed hands.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

"Jesus declared all foods clean" was added in later manuscripts.
It's absolutely not in the original language.

Interesting eh?
 
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tzadik

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What part of "Read the bible" do YOU not understand. I didn't say he sinned, he broke many laws such as healing on the sabbath, eating with sinners etc. It was a part of his teachings. He was above the law.

Messiah not ONCE broke any of the Commandments that His Father wrote in His Law.
Zero. As in Nada.

healing on the sabbath and eating with sinners were man-made traditions and rules AGAINST the Law of God. (just like washing hands before meals in Matthew 15 and Mark 7..ironically enough)
 
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xAmadeusx

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Deuteronomy 4:2. (read it)

Mark 7 explicitly deals with the eating with unwashed hands.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

"Jesus declared all foods clean" was added in later manuscripts.
It's absolutely not in the original language.

Interesting eh?

Even if the last part was added later I'm pretty sure that "NOTHING that enters a person from the outside can defile them" is pretty self explanitory dontcha think? How can you be so sure what he was talking about, were you there?
 
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xAmadeusx

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Messiah not ONCE broke any of the Commandments that His Father wrote in His Law.
Zero. As in Nada.

healing on the sabbath and eating with sinners were man-made traditions and rules AGAINST the Law of God. (just like washing hands before meals in Matthew 15 and Mark 7..ironically enough)

*Sigh* thats what I meant... *facepalm*
 
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tzadik

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Even if the last part was added later I'm pretty sure that "NOTHING that enters a person from the outside can defile them" is pretty self explanitory dontcha think? How can you be so sure what he was talking about, were you there?

No but when such an argument "from silence" takes place...
what do I do?
I Berean it up and go back to see what WAS clearly said, commanded and instructed before.
In this case Lev 11 and Deut 14.
So i KNOW it's not referring to His previous CLEAR Instructions regarding food.

You see if we were truly allowed to "insert" (and trump) whatever we want in there...things can get ugly quick.

Cannibals can use that verse to eat human flesh.
Vampires can use that verse to suck and drink blood.
Garbage eaters can defend their delicacies.
Raw meat eaters can use this verse..
and the list goes on.

But good thing Messiah specified what He was talking about...[[Matthew 15:20]]
 
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xAmadeusx

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No but when such an argument "from silence" takes place...
what do I do?
I Berean it up and go back to see what WAS clearly said, commanded and instructed before.
In this case Lev 11 and Deut 14.
So i KNOW it's not referring to His previous CLEAR Instructions regarding food.

You see if we were truly allowed to "insert" (and trump) whatever we want in there...things can get ugly quick.

Cannibals can use that verse to eat human flesh.
Vampires can use that verse to suck and drink blood.
Garbage eaters can defend their delicacies.
Raw meat eaters can use this verse..
and the list goes on.

But good thing Messiah specified what He was talking about...[[Matthew 15:20]]

Well you maybe right, but either way I'm going to eat some nice porkchops later and be content in my salvation.
 
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tzadik

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Well you maybe right, but either way I'm going to eat some nice porkchops later and be content in my salvation.

At the end of the day...it is between you and God. (and perhaps your family if you have one, or whoever you teach).

Just know that God will judge everyone against His Holy Standard.
All the best*
 
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juvenissun

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Where did God say "it is not a sin to eat pork"?

Last time I checked...in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 he said "don't eat it", "it's not food".

After that, God says: you may eat it.

There is no question that God lets us eat it. The question is why. Don't bark up the wrong tree.
 
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WinBySurrender

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Mark 7:18 "Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
And this pertains to the discussion exactly how?
 
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juvenissun

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And this pertains to the discussion exactly how?

Nevertheless, take one step back. I am still not sure about eating "bloody" food. I guess it is OK, but only feel uneasy because life is in the blood.
 
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WinBySurrender

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Nevertheless, take one step back. I am still not sure about eating "bloody" food. I guess it is OK, but only feel uneasy because life is in the blood.
We are under none of the law, civil, dietary or ceremonial. And I like my steaks rare.
 
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