Out of all the Christian doctrines, the Trinity is the one I have the least amount of answers for. God is one, but God is clearly three separate Persons. How do you all explain this when asked by atheists or the simply curious?
Can We Clarify the Trinity?
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This might help.
London Baptist Confession, 1689
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )
3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
London Baptist Confession, 1689
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )
3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
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I like all the verses that come with each point. Thanks for this!This might help.
London Baptist Confession, 1689
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )
3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
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- Jun 26, 2004
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The Trinity working in unity.
Lord's Day 9
26Q.What do you believe when you say:I believe in God the Father almighty,Creator of heaven and earth? A. That...
29Q.Why is the Son of God called Jesus, that is, Saviour? A. Because He saves us from all our...
53Q.What do you believe concerning the Holy Spirit? A. First, He is, together with the Father and the Son,...
Lord's Day 9
26Q.What do you believe when you say:I believe in God the Father almighty,Creator of heaven and earth? A. That...
- Lord's Day 10
27Q.What do you understand by the providence of God? A. God’s providence is His almighty and ever present power,1...
29Q.Why is the Son of God called Jesus, that is, Saviour? A. Because He saves us from all our...
- Lord's Day 12
31Q.Why is He called Christ, that is, Anointed? A. Because He has been ordained by God the Father, and...
- Lord's Day 13
33Q.Why is He called God’s only-begotten Son, since we also are children of God? A. Because Christ alone is...
- Lord's Day 14
35Q.What do you confess when you say: He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary?...
- Lord's Day 15
37Q.What do you confess when you say that He suffered? A. During all the time He lived on earth,...
- Lord's Day 16
40Q.Why was it necessary for Christ to humble Himself even unto death? A. Because of the justice and truth...
- Lord's Day 17
45Q.How does Christ’s resurrection benefit us? A. First, by His resurrection He has overcome death, so that He could...
- Lord's Day 18
46Q.What do you confess when you say, He ascended into heaven? A. That Christ, before the eyes of His...
- Lord's Day 19
50Q.Why is it added, And sits at the right hand of God? A. Christ ascended into heaven to manifest...
53Q.What do you believe concerning the Holy Spirit? A. First, He is, together with the Father and the Son,...
- Lord's Day 21
54Q.What do you believe concerning the holy catholic Christian church? A. I believe that the Son of God,1 out...
- Lord's Day 22
57Q.What comfort does the resurrection of the body offer you? A. Not only shall my soul after this life...
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Hi,
I think I will depart now. I really did make a mistake, in not seeing this was a Baptist only site. I will try and be more careful in the future.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
I think I will depart now. I really did make a mistake, in not seeing this was a Baptist only site. I will try and be more careful in the future.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .
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It's the Heidelberg Catechism. The Baptists did a rewrite of it during the 17th century calling it the Orthodox Catechism.
As to the "mystery" of the Trinity, yes it is a mystery in a sense, but we can know certain things about the Godhead because they have been revealed. What the RC'S and EO's do is retreat and hide behind the idea of mystery and in so doing they ignoring what scripture makes clear.
If you can get your hands on John Owen's Communion with the Triune God read it. It will help.
Yours in the Lord
As to the "mystery" of the Trinity, yes it is a mystery in a sense, but we can know certain things about the Godhead because they have been revealed. What the RC'S and EO's do is retreat and hide behind the idea of mystery and in so doing they ignoring what scripture makes clear.
If you can get your hands on John Owen's Communion with the Triune God read it. It will help.
Yours in the Lord
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Thanks! I will. And yes, I believe in mysteries but we need to be really careful going there. Another one is acting like a blatant irrational contradiction in theology is just a "paradox". It's not a paradox if a rational solution has been offered but willfully rejected...
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Here's how you respond to an Atheist "Since in your opinion God does not exist, it logically follows that THE TRINITY DOES NOT EXIST". End of story.
For all others, we need to make it very clear that there is such a thing as "THE MYSTERY OF GOD" and "THE MYSTERY OF GODLINESS". Therefore the doctrine of the triune Godhead (since the word Trinity is not found in the Bible, but the word "Godhead" certainly is) is a mysterious doctrine. GOD IS ONE, YET HE HAS REVEALED HIMSELF TO MAN AS THREE DISTINCT DIVINE PERSONS.
Because this is so, the very first mention of God is the Hebrew word ELOHIM (Gen 1:1), which is a uni-plural word, indicating there are three persons in the Godhead -- God the Father, God the Word (the Son), and God the Holy Spirit (1 Jn 5:7). We approach God the Father through God the Son and by God the Holy Spirit.
Hence God said "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..." (Gen 1:26). Mortal man cannot comprehend God, therefore this Mystery of God will remain a mystery until we see Him face-to-face. At the same time, the glory of God has been revealed IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST (2 Cor 4:6). If you want to know the heart, mind, and will of God, all you have to do is behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world (Jn 1:29).
For those who wish to dismiss 1 Jn 5:7 (as the modern Bible versions have done, and also garbled the immediate passage), there is more than enough evidence to prove that this is genuine Scripture. However that is another topic.
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mikedsjr
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If people are wanting a quick response, the image above works. However, I've never been content with any of the type of answers above. Walter Martin did a wonderful explanation one time. I find his approach superior and rather quick. He tackles the issue by defending the Trinity against Jehovah Witnesses. He first demonstrates Scripture says there is one God. From there is goes into defending Scripture says God is called Father. Next, Walter demonstrates Scripture says God has a Son, where then he defends the Son claims deity and Scripture has terms for the deity and how they point to Christ as God. Finally, he quickly shows that the Holy Spirit is a being and the being claims deity. He demonstrates that each do the same thing. Each one, for instance, is proclaimed in Scripture to raise Christ up in separate verses and separate books.
Walter Martin does all this without using a typical verse use to defend the Trinity, like John 1:1, or Matthew 28:19.
But for lengthy answers, On the Trinity by St. Augustine is quite good.
Walter Martin does all this without using a typical verse use to defend the Trinity, like John 1:1, or Matthew 28:19.
But for lengthy answers, On the Trinity by St. Augustine is quite good.
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Ariel Gavriel
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I do not believe that God should be in the center of this diagram. I think that the Father should be there. I believed that this was a really great picture of the Godhead but I don't hold the same opinion now.
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Nice diagram -- I agree that all 3 are ontologically "God"
I also particularly enjoy section 19 and 21 of the Baptist Confession.
I also particularly enjoy section 19 and 21 of the Baptist Confession.
This might help.
London Baptist Confession, 1689
Chapter 2: Of God and of the Holy Trinity
1._____The Lord our God is but one only living and true God; whose subsistence is in and of himself, infinite in being and perfection; whose essence cannot be comprehended by any but himself; a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions, who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; who is immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, every way infinite, most holy, most wise, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will for his own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek him, and withal most just and terrible in his judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.
( 1 Corinthians 8:4, 6; Deuteronomy 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10; Isaiah 48:12; Exodus 3:14; John 4:24; 1 Timothy 1:17; Deuteronomy 4:15, 16; Malachi 3:6; 1 Kings 8:27; Jeremiah 23:23; Psalms 90:2; Genesis 17:1; Isaiah 6:3; Psalms 115:3; Isaiah 46:10; Proverbs 16:4; Romans 11:36; Exodus 34:6, 7; Hebrews 11:6; Nehemiah 9:32, 33; Psalms 5:5, 6; Exodus 34:7; Nahum 1:2, 3 )
2._____God, having all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of himself, is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creature which he hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them; he is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things, and he hath most sovereign dominion over all creatures, to do by them, for them, or upon them, whatsoever himself pleaseth; in his sight all things are open and manifest, his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain; he is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands; to him is due from angels and men, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience, as creatures they owe unto the Creator, and whatever he is further pleased to require of them.
( John 5:26; Psalms 148:13; Psalms 119:68; Job 22:2, 3; Romans 11:34-36; Daniel 4:25, 34, 35; Hebrews 4:13; Ezekiel 11:5; Acts 15:18; Psalms 145:17; Revelation 5:12-14 )
3._____ In this divine and infinite Being there are three subsistences, the Father, the Word or Son, and Holy Spirit, of one substance, power, and eternity, each having the whole divine essence, yet the essence undivided: the Father is of none, neither begotten nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son; all infinite, without beginning, therefore but one God, who is not to be divided in nature and being, but distinguished by several peculiar relative properties and personal relations; which doctrine of the Trinity is the foundation of all our communion with God, and comfortable dependence on him.
( 1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Exodus 3:14; John 14:11; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:14,18; John 15:26; Galatians 4:6 )
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That makes no attempt to understand where they are coming from and assigns them a less human value simply because they hate God. There could be many reasons they don't believe God and one could be the trinity. For me, I wouldn't be able to answer like that without being an instigator. If I were an unbeliever and someone responded to me like that I would think, "And you're representative of your God? Sheesh!"
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Yep, it is there right off.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
God - Elohim in Hebrew and is plural, and Spirit is mentioned in vs. 2
We see the Trinity again in the OT tabernacle. In the Holy of Holies is the Ark which is the seat of God. On the right is the table with 12 loaves of shewbread (Jesus said He is the Bread of Life), and on the left is the 7 candled lamp (seven-fold Spirit of God).
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Oh wow this is neat!Yep, it is there right off.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
God - Elohim in Hebrew and is plural, and Spirit is mentioned in vs. 2
We see the Trinity again in the OT tabernacle. In the Holy of Holies is the Ark which is the seat of God. On the right is the table with 12 loaves of shewbread (Jesus said He is the Bread of Life), and on the left is the 7 candled lamp (seven-fold Spirit of God).
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