Can we choose Him before He wakes us up?

Wordkeeper

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No, we are born spiritually dead, but saved in God's mind. Brought to experience eternal life in real time.
Eternal with reference to lasting, not time.

A marker is an eternal marker, permanent marker, because its marks are permanent.

A pencil is a temporary marker...

The works of a person living the eternal type of life is permanent, not like the earthly returns earned by people who serve the world, selfish interests, for gains that perish.
 
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Dave L

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No I accepted His free gift. I cannot grant myself grace. Am I able to forgive my own sins?
This goes back to our original discussion. Only believers will choose to believe, thinking it is a condition for salvation. Had you not believed, you would not have chose to believe.
 
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Dave L

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Does God love me and not them?
God hates sinners. But because God is love, he set his love on us and took our punishment in Christ on the cross. After God gives us a new heart, he can remain good and love us subjectively.
 
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BNR32FAN

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God hates sinners. But because God is love, he set his love on us and took our punishment in Christ on the cross. After God gives us a new heart, he can remain good and love us subjectively.

God loves sinners. He saved us while we were sinners.
 
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BNR32FAN

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God hates sinners. But because God is love, he set his love on us and took our punishment in Christ on the cross. After God gives us a new heart, he can remain good and love us subjectively.

God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell. He wants everyone to repent and be saved.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Read the context in Peter. He speaks of US, not willing that any of US should perish.

Here’s the Greek word for word translation

2 Peter 3:9

9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

9 οὐ (not) G3756 Adv βραδύνει (slow) G1019 V-PIA-3S Κύριος (Lord) G2962 N-NMS τῆς (the) G3588 Art-GFS ἐπαγγελίας (promise) G1860 N-GFS ὥς (as) G5613 Adv τινες (some) G5100 IPro-NMP βραδυτῆτα (slowness) G1022 N-AFS ἡγοῦνται (count) G2233 V-PIM/P-3P ἀλλὰ (but) G235 Conj μακροθυμεῖ (patient) G3114 V-PIA-3S εἰς (toward) G1519 Prep ὑμᾶς (you) G4771 PPro-A2P μὴ (not) G3361 Adv βουλόμενός (wishing) G1014 V-PPM/P-NMS τινας (some) G5100 IPro-AMP ἀπολέσθαι (perish) G622 V-ANM ἀλλὰ (but) G235 Conj πάντας (all) G3956 Adj-AMP εἰς (toward) G1519 Prep μετάνοιαν (repentance) G3341 N-AFS χωρῆσαι (come) G5562 V-ANA

Not only that some not perish but ALL repent.
 
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redleghunter

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Think about it. You won't stoop to pick up a dollar if you don't believe it is there. You've been taught you must choose to believe before God will save you. So in the same sense you choose to pick up salvation by going through a little decision making ritual only those who already believe would go through.
I think the appropriate reference is Ephesians chapter 2. We are dead in our trespasses but God makes us alive in Him. Therefore, your point I believe is quite valid....Dead people don't respond unless Someone makes them alive:

Ephesians 2: NASB
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And if we look at Romans chapter 8 we see the Apostle Paul address this doctrinally:

Romans 8: NASB
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”


37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Dave-W

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BNR32FAN

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God hates sin and sinners. If we had any value, we share his glory.

Brother why won’t you please answer my questions in post 44 & 56? Test your beliefs brother. Remember Paul said we should test our beliefs and hold to that which is good.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I think the appropriate reference is Ephesians chapter 2. We are dead in our trespasses but God makes us alive in Him. Therefore, your point I believe is quite valid....Dead people don't respond unless Someone makes them alive:

Ephesians 2: NASB
1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

And if we look at Romans chapter 8 we see the Apostle Paul address this doctrinally:

Romans 8: NASB
28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
“FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.”


37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is saying that God is working in us but not that we are a chosen selected group.
 
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Ken Rank

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No, we are born spiritually dead, but saved in God's mind. Brought to experience eternal life in real time.
Dave we can't be "dead" (spiritually or physically) at any time in, well, TIME... and then be ETERNALLY saved in the sense that we have always been, are, and always will be saved. You don't even realize that you are contradicting yourself and won't hear it from others as you made it clear to me yesterday that you have reached a point where you have nothing left to learn. Brother... that really is a dangerous place to be.
 
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BNR32FAN

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[
Dave we can't be "dead" (spiritually or physically) at any time in, well, TIME... and then be ETERNALLY saved in the sense that we have always been, are, and always will be saved. You don't even realize that you are contradicting yourself and won't hear it from others as you made it clear to me yesterday that you have reached a point where you have nothing left to learn. Brother... that really is a dangerous place to be.

Amen the Greek word for eternal is aiṓnios which means
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
 
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Halbhh

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Slightly different question to the one yesterday. Does it matter?

If we are born spiritually dead or become dead spiritually because of our own unavoidable sin nature, we need the work of God to make us spiritually alive again.

If we come spiritually dead, regardless of how, what do you base your belief on that we can choose God? Do you believe He has to make us spiritually alive before we can choose Him or can we choose Him before He awakens us?

In Luke chapter 15, the prodigal is not dead initially, but becomes 'dead' by departing, and then after he returns is alive again. Therefore not 'born dead'. For questions, just rely on Christ's wording instead of theories and you won't go wrong. Perhaps Luke chapter 15 as a whole is the best way to think on all of this kind of question about 'choosing'. It's more like abject repentance!
 
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royal priest

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Slightly different question to the one yesterday. Does it matter?

If we are born spiritually dead or become dead spiritually because of our own unavoidable sin nature, we need the work of God to make us spiritually alive again.

If we come spiritually dead, regardless of how, what do you base your belief on that we can choose God? Do you believe He has to make us spiritually alive before we can choose Him or can we choose Him before He awakens us?
Charles Spurgeon said, “We declare on scriptural authority that the human will is so desperately set on mischief, so depraved, so inclined to everything that is evil, and so disinclined to everything that is good, that without the powerful, supernatural, irresistible influence of the Holy Spirit, no human will will ever be constrained toward Christ.”
 
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