Can unsaved men appear saved?

[frumanchu]

Simple, straightforward question:

[FONT=&quot]Do you believe it is possible for a person to answer an invitation to accept Christ happily but superficially, profess to hold orthodox Christian doctrine while never fully embracing it in their hearts, and then abandon their belief and profession in those doctrines without having ever been saved in the first place?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]IOW, can men appear saved to others without ever actually being saved?[/FONT]

 

[frumanchu]

This poll was prompted by a [post=23794345]recent post in another thread[/post][FONT=&quot] in direct response to this exact question (see bottom of post):

[/FONT]There was a man who SHOWED at the "wedding feast" (Matt22:11) but refused to clean UP. He seems to fit your idea of "didn't REALLY believe", didn't he? But the Scriptural principle, is "no good tree produces bad fruit, no bad tree produces good" (Jesus' words, Matt7:18). It really seems, by saying "the FALSE can escaped OUTWARDLY but not INWARDLY", that they are producing GOOD FRUIT.

So you ask me, "can someone SUPERFICIALLY embrace Him but not REALLY BELIEVE"? And I would say, "NO".
"Little children, let no one deceive you; he who PRACTICES righteousness IS righteous... he who does NOT practice righteousness IS of the devil; ...by this the children of God and the children of the devil are exposed --- he who does NOT practice righteousness IS NOT OF GOD." 1Jn

Fru, my friend --- this is spiritual absolute. He who PRACTICES righteousness, is of GOD. He who does not, is not. Thus --- when we see words like "escaped defilements through the true-knowledge of the LORD and SAVIOR Jesus", it has to mean "Lord and Savior of the ESCAPED." For "escaped-defilements", honors the premise of "good trees produce good fruit" (and bad trees cannot).

Matt7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of Heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord! Did we not prophesy, cast out demons, and do mighty works in Your name?' " THERE is your premise of "thought they were SAVED", Fru.

But what did Jesus SAY to them? "Depart from Me, you who PRACTICE WICKEDNESS!!!"

Do you see the dynamic? They THOUGHT they were saved, but practiced WICKEDNESS. "Bad trees, BAD FRUIT". Escaped nothing.[FONT=&quot]

Rather than take that thread off topic to address this issue there, I decided to create this poll and to address the issue here instead. I'd like to hear some other views of those who vote, and at some point I will respond to the above view.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Philip]

Simple, straightforward question:

[FONT=&quot]Do you believe it is possible for a person to answer an invitation to accept Christ happily but superficially, profess to hold orthodox Christian doctrine while never fully embracing it in their hearts, and then abandon their belief and profession in those doctrines without having ever been saved in the first place?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]IOW, can men appear saved to others without ever actually being saved?[/FONT]

It seems that I am unable to vote as the choices require that saved/not-saved be applied to those who still live on earth.

 

[depthdeception]

Simple, straightforward question:

[FONT=&quot]Do you believe it is possible for a person to answer an invitation to accept Christ happily but superficially, profess to hold orthodox Christian doctrine while never fully embracing it in their hearts, and then abandon their belief and profession in those doctrines without having ever been saved in the first place?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]IOW, can men appear saved to others without ever actually being saved?[/FONT]

Define "saved." You seem to be talking about a "positional" view of salvation. However, many of us on these threads would disagree with that definition. Therefore, it would be difficult, if not entirely impossible, to answer your "straightforward" question.

 

[JJB]

They can appear saved....for awhile. For how long? Some for a very long time.

 

[holdon]

Simple, straightforward question:

[FONT=&quot]Do you believe it is possible for a person to answer an invitation to accept Christ happily but superficially, profess to hold orthodox Christian doctrine while never fully embracing it in their hearts, and then abandon their belief and profession in those doctrines without having ever been saved in the first place?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]IOW, can men appear saved to others without ever actually being saved?[/FONT]

What is the "saved" appearance anyway??? Christians are called saints in the NT. That's what their appearance should be.....

But it's entirely possible appearances are not reality. Think wolves that appear as sheep, etc...

As to "saved". There are different aspects of that. There is salvation for this earth and for eternity. There is present salvation and future salvation....

I am a "once a child, always a child" believer.....

 

[frumanchu]

*sigh* I should have anticipated such responses

By "saved" I mean in a state of justification whereby, should that person die at that moment, they would spend eternity in Heaven.

If that isn't sufficient enough to allow an answer, then don't answer as the question really isn't meant for you (no offense intended).

 

[nobdysfool]

Perhaps it would be helpful to define the question thusly:

Is it possible for any person to appear to be a Christian, that is, by their outward actions, associations, and activities, lead others to believe that they are truly born again, based on what can be seen outwardly, while that person inwardly has not embraced the Gospel is such a way that their heart has truly been changed, but they only engage in intellectual assent and still rely on themselves and their own righteousness to carry themselves to heaven?

Does this help?

 

[Defcon]

I voted yes -

Just a couple of verses that address this:
1 John 2:18 - "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Philip]

Is it possible for any person to appear to be a Christian, that is, by their outward actions, associations, and activities, lead others to believe that they are truly born again, based on what can be seen outwardly, while that person inwardly has not embraced the Gospel is such a way that their heart has truly been changed, but they only engage in intellectual assent and still rely on themselves and their own righteousness to carry themselves to heaven?

This certainly seems possible. I don't think that anyone would dispute that we often have the wrong impression of others. A more interesting question would be to consider this hypothetical person's perception of himself.

 

[nobdysfool]

This certainly seems possible. I don't think that anyone would dispute that we often have the wrong impression of others. A more interesting question would be to consider this hypothetical person's perception of himself.

Since there are a couple of ways we can look at the question, I would say that the person is either self-deceived in that they think they have done what is necessary, which could be in part due to the kind of doctrine they hear at the church they attend, or, they have an ulterior motive for "putting on the show" of being a Christian. It could be summed up as "sincerely wrong", or "culpably wrong".

Sincerely wrong is still wrong. God doesn't consider the sincerety of a person who would cry "Lord, Lord I did this or that in your Name!", because sincerity isn't the issue, and not the measure of what has been done. Many would say that his sincerity should count for something, but that's wishy-washy human philosophy, and not the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Van]

According to RT, a person would not seek God unless they have been regenerated, and they would not be regenerated prior to faith unless they were elect. So how do "sincerely wrong" unregenerates who hate God self deceive themselves such that they believe they are in union with Christ? Well, they are given a second class grace that allows them to seek God a little, but ineffectively. Hangs together nicely don't you think.

 

[drstevej]

According to RT, a person would not seek God unless they have been regenerated, and they would not be regenerated prior to faith unless they were elect. So how do "sincerely wrong" unregenerates who hate God self deceive themselves such that they believe they are in union with Christ?

Press here

 

[Philip]

Since there are a couple of ways we can look at the question, I would say that the person is either self-deceived in that they think they have done what is necessary, which could be in part due to the kind of doctrine they hear at the church they attend, or, they have an ulterior motive for "putting on the show" of being a Christian. It could be summed up as "sincerely wrong", or "culpably wrong".

Those who are 'putting on the show' know what they are doing. But what those who are 'sincerely wrong? Do they know what they are doing? Do they believe themselves to be Christian?

 

[cygnusx1]

Yes unsaved men can appear saved ......... the example of Simon Magus is the best I know , he was even baptised if memory serves.

The experimental part of the warnings against apostacy is the means God uses to sift the good from the bad ..... leaving only the genuine.

 

[nobdysfool]

Those who are 'putting on the show' know what they are doing. But what those who are 'sincerely wrong? Do they know what they are doing? Do they believe themselves to be Christian?

Since Jesus specifically said, "many will say to Me on that Day, 'Lord, Lord, Did we not do miracles in your name...etc.' and His reply is, "Depart from me, I never knew you", then the answer must be "YES", they believe themselves to be Christian, but they are not truly saved.

If they know what they are doing, i.e. that they're not truly saved, they will either stop the act, or seek to "make it so".

 

[Philip]

Since Jesus specifically said, "many will say to Me on that Day, 'Lord, Lord, Did we not do miracles in your name...etc.' and His reply is, "Depart from me, I never knew you", then the answer must be "YES", they believe themselves to be Christian, but they are not truly saved.

Now, how does one know that one is truely Christian and not just mistakenly believing that one is Christian?

 

[eldermike]

I voted yes. The only thing missing from the pole IMHO is the number of those playing church is huge. Jesus said "many" will say to me I did this and that, and Jesus will say: "Depart from Me, I know you not"

Another way to say this:

Is it possible that there are saved people in the church?

The answer is also yes, as hard as it is to believe.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Simple, straightforward question:

[FONT=&quot]Do you believe it is possible for a person to answer an invitation to accept Christ happily but superficially, profess to hold orthodox Christian doctrine while never fully embracing it in their hearts, and then abandon their belief and profession in those doctrines without having ever been saved in the first place?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]IOW, can men appear saved to others without ever actually being saved?[/FONT]

2 cor 11:14-15 judge by their good works...independent of God

 

[Van]

Scripture clearly teaches how we know that we are saved and not self deceived. Do we love Jesus more than anything, or does our heart convict us, do we love the treasures of this world. A love of darkness is revealed in the heart of those who "practice" lawlessness.