CAN THERE BE ADULTERY

[Douglas Hendrickson]

WITHOUT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE?

In other words, What does Mt. 5:28 mean?

Is it like v.29 & v.30, in that it is a warning against sin, against transgressing the Commandment?

Or in other words, what is the corrrect definition of "adultery"?

And is the reason Scripture suggests condemned to Hell for "fornication" only because adultery is a subset of fornication?

 

[1213]

WITHOUT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE?

In other words, What does Mt. 5:28 mean?
...

I think it means, you can do the sexual intercourse in your mind, and it is as wrong as if you would do it in real life.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

I think it means, you can do the sexual intercourse in your mind, and it is as wrong as if you would do it in real life.

Of course "doing the sexual intercourse" in your mind is quite a different thing than doing actual sexual intercourse.
On what grounds can one insist on the serious punishments that are to apply to actual sexual intercourse (outside of marriage), that they apply to what is ONLY THINKING?
Are there really no significant differences between the thought and the reality? (Presumably the thought would accompany the reality, even if one could have the thought alone.) Seems like the THOUGHT ITSELF would be a rather "pale" reflection of the "real thing"?
How is the thought THE SAME in the sense of being "as wrong as? What are the factors of culpability that apply?

 

[1213]

...
On what grounds can one insist on the serious punishments that are to apply to actual sexual intercourse (outside of marriage), that they apply to what is ONLY THINKING?
...

I believe and understand that is what Jesus means. Person is probably as righteous if he does it in his mind or in real life. And righteousness is the crucial thing, because:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

But idea about something is not necessary same as doing in your mind something. I think person may get many bad ideas, but not accept and do them in the mind and then there has not really happened anything wrong.

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Of course "doing the sexual intercourse" in your mind is quite a different thing than doing actual sexual intercourse.
On what grounds can one insist on the serious punishments that are to apply to actual sexual intercourse (outside of marriage), that they apply to what is ONLY THINKING?
Are there really no significant differences between the thought and the reality? (Presumably the thought would accompany the reality, even if one could have the thought alone.) Seems like the THOUGHT ITSELF would be a rather "pale" reflection of the "real thing"?
How is the thought THE SAME in the sense of being "as wrong as? What are the factors of culpability that apply?

Jesus declared adultery to be if one looks on a woman or man for that matter with lust that it is the same as adultery.

The mechanics of adultery speak for themselves. As does lust for someone not our husband or wife due to what lust is and its mechanics speaking for itself. It is not a protracted debate. It is easy to understand. If I look at a man with lust and I'm married I'm imagining sexual carnal things about that man and me.

That's adultery of the mind. Because the body becomes aroused due to the imagination creating an encounter with someone not my husband.

It's that simple really.

 

[Cuddles333]

I have found that most Christians (and even non-Christians) mistakenly think that the Koine Greek word epithumeo of (Mt.5:28) is the same word found in (Rom.1:27) where it reads: ".....burned in their lust..." It is not the same word. The Koine Greek word translated 'lust' in (Rom. 1:27) is orexis and means: 'Excitement of the mind'. The word mistakenly translated 'lust' in (Mt. 5:28) epithumeo means: to set the heart upon, to desire....to own someone (woman or slave) or something that belongs to someone else.

 

[revanneosl]

Douglas, my brother, quit trying to weasel your way out of your sin. Nobody cares whether you actually stuck your member in the girl.That doesn't matter. You thought about it.

Pray for a better mind.

 

[Hillsage]

WITHOUT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE?

In other words, What does Mt. 5:28 mean?

Is it like v.29 & v.30, in that it is a warning against sin, against transgressing the Commandment?

Yes it is a warning about sin, but it is also a warning about your soulish thinking process which leads up to committing that sin.

Or in other words, what is the corrrect definition of "adultery"?

Adultery is sex with someone who is married, but not to you. Fornication is someone who is not married, having sex. And it matters not if that sex act was 'in your heart/mind, or with your body/flesh. It's still the same definition.

BUT, AND THIS IS HUGE. You are a spirit living in a body and having a soul.

Matt 5:28 means you can 'transgress the commandment 'in your heart' or soul/mind, but you still have not broken the commandment by committing 'sin' with your 'body'.

Being tempted always means you thought about doing something sinful. That's the very definition of temptation in James. But being tempted is not sin.

JAM 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

BUT Jesus was 'tempted as we are, yet without sinning'...(doing IT). IOW, as one crudely misunderstands; 'Jesus thought about sticking his member into Mary Magdalene',...BUT HE NEVER DID. He never sinned.

But because his soul/heart was tempted and he wrestled with doing it, He 'transgressed the law'. That's why scripture says "He was numbered with the transgressors".

To further my POV here, and in the same context of your problem verse.

If being "angry with your brother" in your soul/heart, is the same as the sin of murder in the flesh, than the scripture which says "Be angry, but do not SIN" kind of sounds pretty contradictory doesn't it?

 

[Freedom Now]

Temptation comes through thought...


What you do with the thought is what matters...

If you take the thought captive unto the obedience of Christ and forsake the thought, then you have

not sinned.

But if you continue to dwell on the wrong thoughts, it become sin before God whether you outwardly

do it or not.

 

[Hillsage]

Temptation comes through thought...


What you do with the thought is what matters...

If you take the thought captive unto the obedience of Christ and forsake the thought, then you have

not sinned.

I would agree.

But if you continue to dwell on the wrong thoughts, it become sin before God whether you outwardly

do it or not.

You have brought your opinion, which you are entitled to. I brought scripture to base my opinion on. So, unless you have more to say with scriptural backing...I'm not really sure why you were addressing my post and didn't just make a personal comment?

 

[Freedom Now]

I would agree.


You have brought your opinion, which you are entitled to. I brought scripture to base my opinion on. So, unless you have more to say with scriptural backing...I'm not really sure why you were addressing my post and didn't just make a personal comment?

I edited my post, so you no longer have to feel threatened by my opinion any more.


Happy now?

 

[Hillsage]

I edited my post, so you no longer have to feel threatened by my opinion any more.


Happy now?

I'm never threatened by unsubstantiated opinions, which the church is filled with. But I do appreciate your thoughtful 'edit'.

 

[olderguy]

Jesus was perfect and He was teaching the people what that would mean. Quite often Jesus said "be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". To do that sexually you would have to not dwell on sex with anyone other than the person you're married to. Feeling tempted is not sin. Jesus also felt tempted but He didn't sin. Committing adultery is worse than just thinking about it. However, if you're going to spend 20 or 30 yrs always thinking about sinful sex you will find it did you much harm. Especially if you're a married person. This sexual sin issue is 1 of the biggest challenges we face as humans. It gets a little easier with age if you fight it. If you decide sex is part of being human and you can't live without it, you can become a sinful Sr. Citizen who is a disgrace to being a Christian.

Overcoming our sins is a life long battle. God doesn't expect immediate results but He does expect each of us to make progress. When you mess up and commit a sexual sin don't allow the devil to put you in a mindset of feeling condemned by God. But, also don't believe the false idea that God doesn't care about your sins. For way too long preachers were teaching that what you do and how you live is just fine by God. This was never true. Lately almost every preacher I listen to is finally teaching that our sins matter to God. Just always remember that. Sexual sins are some of the hardest to deal with, but it is possible.

 

[2 know him]

WITHOUT SEXUAL INTERCOURSE?

In other words, What does Mt. 5:28 mean?

Is it like v.29 & v.30, in that it is a warning against sin, against transgressing the Commandment?

Or in other words, what is the corrrect definition of "adultery"?

And is the reason Scripture suggests condemned to Hell for "fornication" only because adultery is a subset of fornication?

Strictly speaking the answer is no. But I think the real issue is how does God judge? Jesus said if you look at a woman and are hot after her, or that is to say you lust after her, you have already committed adultery in your heart. The issue According To Jesus is the state of the heart. Your emotions if they are not proper before God are judged. We see this with Cain and Able, Cain's was not right with God. Because Cain's emotons were bad Cain killed his brother. Good emotions will cause us to want only good for others bad emotions what causes to do bad to others your emotions are what God judges. Fix your emotions and your actions will be fixed. Jesus's teachings are about getting us to live with good emotions.

 

[Cuddles333]

Strictly speaking the answer is no. But I think the real issue is how does God judge? Jesus said if you look at a woman and are hot after her, or that is to say you lust after her, you have already committed adultery in your heart. The issue According To Jesus is the state of the heart. Your emotions if they are not proper before God are judged. We see this with Cain and Able, Cain's was not right with God. Because Cain's emotons were bad Cain killed his brother. Good emotions will cause us to want only good for others bad emotions what causes to do bad to others your emotions are what God judges. Fix your emotions and your actions will be fixed. Jesus's teachings are about getting us to live with good emotions.

2 know him,
Any believer could have did (and many have) as I have...and looked up the words of the dead language of the New Testament to find what Jesus was meaning in (Mt.5:28) What is so very strange is why so many refuse to see the truth. The word mistranslated 'lust' here is our word covet. It meant to want to own something that belongs to someone else in order to show it off, (trophy wife), (slave), (tool), etc. Why, after repeatedly be shown, one wants to hold to scriptural error at the expense of truth (especially when the error is much more difficult to deal with) is just boggling to me.

I hope you will check this out:

I have found that most Christians (and even non-Christians) mistakenly think that the Koine Greek word epithumeo of (Mt.5:28) is the same word found in (Rom.1:27) where it reads: ".....burned in their lust..." It is not the same word. The Koine Greek word translated 'lust' in (Rom. 1:27) is orexis and means: 'Excitement of the mind'. The word mistakenly translated 'lust' in (Mt. 5:28) epithumeo means: to set the heart upon, to desire....to own someone (woman or slave) or something that belongs to someone else.

 

[2 know him]

2 know him,
Any believer could have did (and many have) as I have...and looked up the words of the dead language of the New Testament to find what Jesus was meaning in (Mt.5:28) What is so very strange is why so many refuse to see the truth. The word mistranslated 'lust' here is our word covet. It meant to want to own something that belongs to someone else in order to show it off, (trophy wife), (slave), (tool), etc. Why, after repeatedly be shown, one wants to hold to scriptural error at the expense of truth (especially when the error is much more difficult to deal with) is just boggling to me.

I hope you will check this out:

I have found that most Christians (and even non-Christians) mistakenly think that the Koine Greek word epithumeo of (Mt.5:28) is the same word found in (Rom.1:27) where it reads: ".....burned in their lust..." It is not the same word. The Koine Greek word translated 'lust' in (Rom. 1:27) is orexis and means: 'Excitement of the mind'. The word mistakenly translated 'lust' in (Mt. 5:28) epithumeo means: to set the heart upon, to desire....to own someone (woman or slave) or something that belongs to someone else.

If you look at the word's origin from where the Greek word comes from you will see that actually refers to Passion from excited emotions so I think you're actually incorrect.