Can someone explain this logic to me?

[sister_maynard]

This just might be the reason why so many heterosexuals find the concept of same sex sex disturbing.
Yes, it is disturbing and not just icky. I feel I have to clarify because someone will step in an effort to tone down the word disturbing by replacing it with the word icky. When in fact disturbing is what it is to every single hetero person I have talked to and yes I have said that several times.

Hi, I'm a straight person. I don't find the prospect of homosexual intercourse disturbing. I wouldn't want to have it or watch, but neither do I find the idea particularly disgusting or nasty. Several of my friends agree. A lot of people find the idea disturbing and a lot of people don't. Enough with the "every single hetero person" line.

 

[Inviolable]

If only it were that easy. People will still not like gay sex whether we say we are aware of this or not. I can't really follow your reasoning.

Two questions:
How would the gay community say that we are aware that people don't like gay sex? Take an ad out of the paper?
It seems self evident that we are aware of this...many people like to make their opinion on the matter very clear.

And

Why would they have no reason to discriminate after we admit to this? (Although I'm still a little confused on what we are admitting to)

It is the one and only reason gays are discriminated against.
You can point out the many things people are doing to stop gays from having rights, but in the end that is the sole reason they're doing it. And has I have seen in post after post in this thread alone, people simply dont want to admit it. They see a darker more sinister meaning in what I am doing. When in fact I havent said any of the things they're saying I have.
However no matter how desperately and politely I try to point that out here people still seem to see it has an argument against gays.

I'm not saying I agree with homosexuality. But I'm not saying they're any less human then anyone else either.
All I have done, is see the answer to a solution and try to relate it as best I can.
People can see anger in this post if they want to, but it's not.
I simply understand something that I would like other people to understand.
That very plainly is one thing, gay sex is holding gays back from their rights. If they simply say, we understand how people feel, and trust me, the word shouldnt be "icky". Then people will see that and trust them. Maybe even trust them enough to give them rights.

Not understanding the sensitivity people have tward the subject of sex is underestimating peoples reason for discrimination when it comes to homosexuality.

 

[Inviolable]

Hi, I'm a straight person. I don't find the prospect of homosexual intercourse disturbing. I wouldn't want to have it or watch, but neither do I find the idea particularly disgusting or nasty. Several of my friends agree. A lot of people find the idea disturbing and a lot of people don't. Enough with the "every single hetero person" line.

Yeah...

 

[sister_maynard]

Yeah...

Yeah... what? Several other people have chimed in with this point as well.

 

[TheOutsider]

It is the one and only reason gays are discriminated against.
You can point out the many things people are doing to stop gays from having rights, but in the end that is the sole reason they're doing it. And has I have seen in post after post in this thread alone, people simply dont want to admit it. They see a darker more sinister meaning in what I am doing. When in fact I havent said any of the things they're saying I have.
However no matter how desperately and politely I try to point that out here people still seem to see it has an argument against gays.

As I said before, I'm pretty sure that most gay people know that straight people don't like gay sex. What exactly are you wanting them to do, make a public announcement or something? After that will all of the discrimination stop overnight? Can we give gay people the right to marry whoever they want to marry after they make their announcement?

All I have done, is see the answer to a solution and try to relate it as best I can.

You have done a pretty horrible job of relating your position so far.

 

[Inviolable]

Yeah... what? Several other people have chimed in with this point as well.

You mean one other person?

And the fact that you dont even want to watch makes me wonder how un-disgusting you'll find it when its being performed on you.
You dont even want to see it.

 

[Inviolable]

As I said before, I'm pretty sure that most gay people know that straight people don't like gay sex. What exactly are you wanting them to do, make a public announcement or something? After that will all of the discrimination stop overnight? Can we give gay people the right to marry whoever they want to marry after they make their announcement?

You have done a pretty horrible job of relating your position so far.

I dont think I have, I'm Christian and dont approve of homosexual acts.
That doesn't mean that I dont think they're human and capable of being effected by the same emotions all of us are.
Dont think I have said any more or any less then that when it comes to describing my position.

And, I cant say if it will get them their rights over night. But I do know that it will effect a lot of people who simply dont want to allow homosexuals their rights for that very reason.
They can make it clear anyway they want to, so far and has I have said in the post you have quoted, several people on this very thread are doing their darnedest to turn the subject into anything other then what I am saying it is.
If they knew the reason they were different and so willing to admit it then we wouldnt be having this conversation several times over.

 

[IzzyPop]

It is the one and only reason gays are discriminated against.
You can point out the many things people are doing to stop gays from having rights, but in the end that is the sole reason they're doing it. And has I have seen in post after post in this thread alone, people simply dont want to admit it. They see a darker more sinister meaning in what I am doing. When in fact I havent said any of the things they're saying I have.
However no matter how desperately and politely I try to point that out here people still seem to see it has an argument against gays.

I'm not saying I agree with homosexuality. But I'm not saying they're any less human then anyone else either.
All I have done, is see the answer to a solution and try to relate it as best I can.
People can see anger in this post if they want to, but it's not.
I simply understand something that I would like other people to understand.
That very plainly is one thing, gay sex is holding gays back from their rights. If they simply say, we understand how people feel, and trust me, the word shouldnt be "icky". Then people will see that and trust them. Maybe even trust them enough to give them rights.

Not understanding the sensitivity people have tward the subject of sex is underestimating peoples reason for discrimination when it comes to homosexuality.

You are missing the deeper issue. If lesbian sex was found to be as upsetting, you would have a point. If lesbians were not discriminated against, you would have a point. Neither of these are true, so it cannot be 'gay sex is gross'. I pointed out what it was earlier and you ignored it, so I will point it out again. If has to do with gender roles in our society. The taboo against anal penetration of straight men by their female partners is pretty strong for the same reason that male/male sex is taboo. 'Real men' don't get penetrated.

This is almost the entire crux of the issue. Why do so many people focus on the gay male sex? Because that is the part that is most threatening. It make men less male. And we are taught as men that to be feminine is bad. "Be a man about it." "Quit being a girl." "Sissy" "The B-word" How many other sayings that are derogatory towards men by associating them with females can you come up with off the top of your head?

It's not the sex. It's the feminization of the traditional male role(s) that is causing the problems.

 

[naotmaa]

It is the one and only reason gays are discriminated against.
You can point out the many things people are doing to stop gays from having rights, but in the end that is the sole reason they're doing it. And has I have seen in post after post in this thread alone, people simply dont want to admit it. They see a darker more sinister meaning in what I am doing. When in fact I havent said any of the things they're saying I have.

I'm sorry but I simply don't see where people are denying that gay sex is one of the reasons people discriminate against us.

However no matter how desperately and politely I try to point that out here people still seem to see it has an argument against gays.

I'm not saying I agree with homosexuality. But I'm not saying they're any less human then anyone else either.
All I have done, is see the answer to a solution and try to relate it as best I can.
People can see anger in this post if they want to, but it's not.
I simply understand something that I would like other people to understand.
That very plainly is one thing, gay sex is holding gays back from their rights. If they simply say, we understand how people feel, and trust me, the word shouldnt be "icky". Then people will see that and trust them. Maybe even trust them enough to give them rights.

I think that is a really naive way to look at it. I think most people know that we know how they may feel about gay sex.

i know this is getting really tedious but could you explain exactly how many people feel about gay sex? Keeping in mind that Christians who are against homosexuality and non christians who don't like it will have slightly different opinions on the matter.

Not understanding the sensitivity people have tward the subject of sex is underestimating peoples reason for discrimination when it comes to homosexuality.

Ok here is my understanding as to why some people have issues with gay sex, it can be either of the following or all, depending on the person:
1.) They think its icky and don't understand why someone would engage in it (probably because they are not gay)
2.)They believe it is all about lust and nothing more
3.)No babies can result
4.)Ain't the way God intended

 

[Inviolable]

You are missing the deeper issue. If lesbian sex was found to be as upsetting, you would have a point. If lesbians were not discriminated against, you would have a point. Neither of these are true, so it cannot be 'gay sex is gross'. I pointed out what it was earlier and you ignored it, so I will point it out again. If has to do with gender roles in our society. The taboo against anal penetration of straight men by their female partners is pretty strong for the same reason that male/male sex is taboo. 'Real men' don't get penetrated.

This is almost the entire crux of the issue. Why do so many people focus on the gay male sex? Because that is the part that is most threatening. It make men less male. And we are taught as men that to be feminine is bad. "Be a man about it." "Quit being a girl." "Sissy" "The B-word" How many other sayings that are derogatory towards men by associating them with females can you come up with off the top of your head?

It's not the sex. It's the feminization of the traditional male role(s) that is causing the problems.

I dont agree with what you're saying. There is that aspect of course but that in no way is the heart of the matter.
That would be on the surface of what I am saying. The kind of fear you're talking about had to be generated from somewhere. Men aren't simply afraid of dimensioning their manhood for no reason.

Besides, hetero women dont agree with lesbian sex and men only enjoy watching lesbian sex when the women performing it are attractive. I'd dare say some men would watch any attractive woman do just about anything as long as she was naked.

 

[Inviolable]

I'm sorry but I simply don't see where people are denying that gay sex is one of the reasons people discriminate against us.


I think that is a really naive way to look at it. I think most people know that we know how they may feel about gay sex.

i know this is getting really tedious but could you explain exactly how many people feel about gay sex? Keeping in mind that Christians who are against homosexuality and non christians who don't like it will have slightly different opinions on the matter.

Ok here is my understanding as to why some people have issues with gay sex, it can be either of the following or all, depending on the person:
1.) They think its icky and don't understand why someone would engage in it (probably because they are not gay)
2.)They believe it is all about lust and nothing more
3.)No babies can result
4.)Ain't the way God intended

Personally, I dont have the fundamental ability to politically get around telling you the exact reasons I have heard on several occasions.
The list you have is correct but there is more.
A friend of mine who is an atheist had an uncle who was gay. His uncle got him a job at a gay bar as a bouncer. He was hit on quite a lot. Needless to say he wasnt gay and never accepted any of the offers he got. It didnt make him upset and he never got angry. But the concept was still out of the question. It's not "icky" Please hear what I am saying when I say, it is not "icky".

My mother was a lesbian. I loved her like a son should and never once held it against her. Even the love of a son didnt once, not for a fraction of a second, make me feel that the concept of gay sex was anything less then unthinkable.
It simply isnt just "icky". The fact that the word "icky" is even used informs people that homosexuals really dont understand why people dont approve of gay sex.

Which very frankly makes people feel uncomfortable around homosexuals.
If I could say that any clearer then that I would.


Now why people think gay sex is unthinkable, I couldnt say.
I cant tell you what makes someone gay and what makes another person straight. All I can tell you is that people dont agree with it in the least and it can get to the point where people are offended by the thought of it.
It's not bigotry, its simply who those people are. They cant help but be who they are any more then you can.
I wish I could say that with more clarity. Thats the best I can do.
I'm sorry.

 

[naotmaa]

Personally, I dont have the fundamental ability to politically get around telling you the exact reasons I have heard on several occasions.
The list you have is correct but there is more.
A friend of mine who is an atheist had an uncle who was gay. His uncle got him a job at a gay bar as a bouncer. He was hit on quite a lot. Needless to say he wasnt gay and never accepted any of the offers he got. It didnt make him upset and he never got angry. But the concept was still out of the question. It's not "icky" Please hear what I am saying when I say, it is not "icky".

If you are working at a gay bar, chances are you are going to get hit on. Same goes for a lesbian who may be a bartender at a bar frequented by heterosexual men.

My mother was a lesbian. I loved her like a son should and never once held it against her. Even the love of a son didnt once, not for a fraction of a second, make me feel that the concept of gay sex was anything less then unthinkable.
It simply isnt just "icky". The fact that the word "icky" is even used informs people that homosexuals really dont understand why people dont approve of gay sex.

Its not simple at all. Some people do not like gay people simply because the find the idea of gay sex disgusting. Nothing more and nothing less.

Which very frankly makes people feel uncomfortable around homosexuals.
If I could say that any clearer then that I would.

People feel uncormfortable around gay people because they are afraid of something they may not understand. Its ignorance and the only way certain people will feel comfortable around us if if they start actually seeing us as being no different than them. There are so many stereotypes associated with gays and lesbians that I can understand why people would not see us as being any more than caricatures. That is the main issue which ignorance stems from.

Now why people think gay sex is unthinkable, I couldnt say.

Ah. You before said you found it unthinkable, maybe you could be more clear on what you meant by this?

I cant tell you what makes someone gay and what makes another person straight. All I can tell you is that people dont agree with it in the least and it can get to the point where people are offended by the thought of it.

People get offended by things they do not understand. The best thing for the gay community to do is not to say ohh yeah we feel your pain, but to educate them.

It's not bigotry, its simply who those people are. They cant help but be who they are any more then you can.

They are ignorant. And those who are ignorant will most likely not know that they are.
I wish I could say that with more clarity.

Thats the best I can do.
I'm sorry.

I understand what you are trying to say and thanks for doing so.

I've been around a lot of people who do not like homosexuality and believe me there is no out there who will try their hardest to figure out why people do not like homosexuality than gays and lesbians.

I think I have a good understanding of it and I know its not as simple as the sex, but it does stem from it.

 

[Inviolable]

Ah. You before said you found it unthinkable, maybe you could be more clear on what you meant by this?

I wouldnt have it under any circumstance.


I apologize but I cant have this conversation with you any more.
Your last post was a bit shaky, words were out of place just a tad.
I hope I havent offended you and I dont wish to offend you any more if I have or take the chance of doing so in the future.
Again, I apologize if I have.

 

[m9lc]

Personally, I dont have the fundamental ability to politically get around telling you the exact reasons I have heard on several occasions.
The list you have is correct but there is more.
A friend of mine who is an atheist had an uncle who was gay. His uncle got him a job at a gay bar as a bouncer. He was hit on quite a lot. Needless to say he wasnt gay and never accepted any of the offers he got. It didnt make him upset and he never got angry. But the concept was still out of the question. It's not "icky" Please hear what I am saying when I say, it is not "icky".

My mother was a lesbian. I loved her like a son should and never once held it against her. Even the love of a son didnt once, not for a fraction of a second, make me feel that the concept of gay sex was anything less then unthinkable.
It simply isnt just "icky". The fact that the word "icky" is even used informs people that homosexuals really dont understand why people dont approve of gay sex.

Which very frankly makes people feel uncomfortable around homosexuals.
If I could say that any clearer then that I would.

Now why people think gay sex is unthinkable, I couldnt say.
I cant tell you what makes someone gay and what makes another person straight. All I can tell you is that people dont agree with it in the least and it can get to the point where people are offended by the thought of it.
It's not bigotry, its simply who those people are. They cant help but be who they are any more then you can.
I wish I could say that with more clarity. Thats the best I can do.
I'm sorry.

Just like interracial sex. People used to be repulsed by that, too, because it was such an alien idea to them.

Yes, your disgust is a result of bigotry.

Sometimes I wonder how anti-gays today don't realize how obvious the historical parallels to the civil rights movement are. Seriously, I noticed that when I was 10 and I learned about what the Bible had to say about homosexuality. And yet so many grown adults can't do it.

 

[naotmaa]

I wouldnt have it under any circumstance.


I apologize but I cant have this conversation with you any more.
Your last post was a bit shaky, words were out of place just a tad.
I hope I havent offended you and I dont wish to offend you any more if I have or take the chance of doing so in the future.
Again, I apologize if I have.

You wouldn't have gay sex under any circumstance? Well..I assume you are straight...so duh. I would not want to have sex with a man under any circumstance.

I tried my best with my post and am surprised that you think it is unclear.
I still don't think I completely understand what you are trying to say..but yeah.

 

[Inviolable]

Just like interracial sex. People used to be repulsed by that, too, because it was such an alien idea to them.

Yes, your disgust is a result of bigotry.

Sometimes I wonder how anti-gays today don't realize how obvious the historical parallels to the civil rights movement are. Seriously, I noticed that when I was 10 and I learned about what the Bible had to say about homosexuality. And yet so many grown adults can't do it.

I have explained it every single way I know how and you are clearly not getting it. It's not what you think it is or are saying it is.

You can look at it with hate but all you're going to receive is hate and not understanding. Personally I think understanding is more important. Clarity can solve any problem.

 

[m9lc]

I have explained it every single way I know how and you are clearly not getting it. It's not what you think it is or are saying it is.

You can look at it with hate but all you're going to receive is hate and not understanding. Personally I think understanding is more important. Clarity can solve any problem.

I understand it - society has given you a stigma towards homosexuals. Society teaches kids that it's gross and wrong, because of bigotry.

Whether it's active bigotry on your part that leads to your disgust is debatable. But at the root it does stem from bigotry.

 

[naotmaa]

I have explained it every single way I know how and you are clearly not getting it. It's not what you think it is or are saying it is.

You can look at it with hate but all you're going to receive is hate and not understanding. Personally I think understanding is more important. Clarity can solve any problem.

I think we all understand that it is important to understand why people don't like it. Many of us do understand. But that does not mean we at all agree with them, or that we have to somehow apologize for anything.

You keep saying it only has to do with gay sex but you don't explain why.

 

[Inviolable]

I understand it - society has given you a stigma towards homosexuals. Society teaches kids that it's gross and wrong, because of bigotry.

Whether it's active bigotry on your part that leads to your disgust is debatable. But at the root it does stem from bigotry.

It's not a stigma and its not bigotry. You know every time I tell a lesbian that it is unthinkable, I get the response that to them straight sex is unthinkable. Just because I find it unthinkable doesnt mean I'm a bigot.
Are lesbians bigots because they cant have sex with men?

Whats wrong with them, why cant they simply find sex with men icky instead of unthinkable.
Those bigoted lesbians, how dare they think sex with men unthinkable.
Or I could say, why dont men just accept that lesbians dont want to have sex with them. Those men will never understand what lesbians have against them.
Or I could go back to...
Lesbians are bigots because gay society has given them a stigma toward men.

Rather I'll stick with the truth, that lesbians cant help but be who they are and simply find sex with men unthinkable. More then icky.
Disgusting in fact.
A large amount of hetero men realize this. Stupid men dont but the normal guy about town who understand that lesbians dont like them stear clear of hitting on lesbians. Unless they're drunk. Then they're just horny guys willing to do anything.
The men dont say to themselves. Lesbians dont like guys because we're icky. They say, lesbians dont like sex with guys because its unthinkable to them. So the smart guy steers clear and the stupid guy makes his presence known by hitting on them.
People generally know the guy is stupid for hitting on a lesbian.
They know this for a reason. They know the reason is because lesbians find straight sex to be unthinkable.
Are lesbians bigots because they think this? Some are.
Now should gay people realise the same thing so we can sort out the stupid gay people from the smart gay people?

Yes.

 

[naotmaa]

It's not a stigma and its not bigotry. You know every time I tell a lesbian that it is unthinkable, I get the response that to them straight sex is unthinkable. Just because I find it unthinkable doesnt mean I'm a bigot.
Are lesbians bigots because they cant have sex with men?

No. Lesbians are not the ones trying to deny people's rights based on who they have sex with.

Whats wrong with them, why cant they simply find sex with men icky instead of unthinkable.
Those bigoted lesbians, how dare they think sex with men unthinkable.
Or I could say, why dont men just accept that lesbians dont want to have sex with them. Those men will never understand what lesbians have against them.
Or I could go back to...
Lesbians are bigots because gay society has given them a stigma toward men.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to those who are against giving rights to gays because of their feelings on gay sex. And yes, it has everything to do with the stigmas attached and bigotry.

Rather I'll stick with the truth, that lesbians cant help but be who they are and simply find sex with men unthinkable. More then icky.
Disgusting in fact.
A large amount of hetero men realize this. Stupid men dont but the normal guy about town who understand that lesbians dont like them stear clear of hitting on lesbians. Unless they're drunk. Then they're just horny guys willing to do anything.
The men dont say to themselves. Lesbians dont like guys because we're icky. They say, lesbians dont like sex with guys because its unthinkable to them. So the smart guy steers clear and the stupid guy makes his presence known by hitting on them.
People generally know the guy is stupid for hitting on a lesbian.
They know this for a reason. They know the reason is because lesbians find straight sex to be unthinkable.
Are lesbians bigots because they think this? Some are.

Now should gay people realise the same thing so we can sort out the stupid gay people from the smart gay people?

Yes.

Was this what you were getting at all along? Gay people have already realized this. Smart gay people steer clear from hitting on those who maybe straight. Yeah..old news. Wow.