Can someone explain Romans 14 to someome with OCD? (trigger warning)

[gingertail27]

Hello

I have OCD and right now im scared. Beofre my OCD was so severe that I gave up everything (music, entertainment, etc) because i thought it was God asking me to. Since I got medication and a therapist. I got back to watching movies,listening to music and stuff. Though im more careful with what I watch

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty. Like now i feel like its bad to watch movies and God wants me to give it up. Im scared because I want to be a director and recently i joined this film group/class. But what if God is telling me to give it up to test me or something. Like i spent a lot of my time thinking about stories and stuff.

I have OCD, i feel like this is my ocd acting up. Before reading that line/commentary i felt perfectly fine watching movies.Now i feel bad because im scared God is asking me to give it up. And if i feel "bad" does that mean i cant watch movies because its "without faith".

 

[disciple Clint]

Hello

I have OCD and right now im scared. Beofre my OCD was so severe that I gave up everything (music, entertainment, etc) because i thought it was God asking me to. Since I got medication and a therapist. I got back to watching movies,listening to music and stuff. Though im more careful with what I watch

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty. Like now i feel like its bad to watch movies and God wants me to give it up. Im scared because I want to be a director and recently i joined this film group/class. But what if God is telling me to give it up to test me or something. Like i spent a lot of my time thinking about stories and stuff.

I have OCD, i feel like this is my ocd acting up. Before reading that line/commentary i felt perfectly fine watching movies.Now i feel bad because im scared God is asking me to give it up. And if i feel "bad" does that mean i cant watch movies because its "without faith".

I am not aware of any problem you should have, Romans 14 is about relationships, being tolerant of others, honoring God with what we do, so we get back to the Love God with all your heart and Love you neighbor as yourself. Where do you see the conflict with this?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hello

I have OCD and right now im scared. Beofre my OCD was so severe that I gave up everything (music, entertainment, etc) because i thought it was God asking me to. Since I got medication and a therapist. I got back to watching movies,listening to music and stuff. Though im more careful with what I watch

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty. Like now i feel like its bad to watch movies and God wants me to give it up. Im scared because I want to be a director and recently i joined this film group/class. But what if God is telling me to give it up to test me or something. Like i spent a lot of my time thinking about stories and stuff.

I have OCD, i feel like this is my ocd acting up. Before reading that line/commentary i felt perfectly fine watching movies.Now i feel bad because im scared God is asking me to give it up. And if i feel "bad" does that mean i cant watch movies because its "without faith".

Paul is being very specific in the passage about going against something you know to be true.

Being a vegan, a vegetarian, a person who does not eat food sacrificed to idols. He is saying work out with the Lord that which is good and that which is not. It is sinful to excuse for oneself limits set just because others are not so bound.

So when with a vegan, do not encourage them to eat meat unless they choose to change their position.
This respect and working things through is part of our walk.

For me showing respect for a day of rest each week is important,but not as a Sabbath, as if I am bound to it. I will buy things if needed, but try to avoid this, to honour the need for rest.

Paul knows this battle being a Pharisee and working through each law and how love overcomes. We are now free to love.

God bless you

 

[Dave L]

Hello

I have OCD and right now im scared. Beofre my OCD was so severe that I gave up everything (music, entertainment, etc) because i thought it was God asking me to. Since I got medication and a therapist. I got back to watching movies,listening to music and stuff. Though im more careful with what I watch

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty. Like now i feel like its bad to watch movies and God wants me to give it up. Im scared because I want to be a director and recently i joined this film group/class. But what if God is telling me to give it up to test me or something. Like i spent a lot of my time thinking about stories and stuff.

I have OCD, i feel like this is my ocd acting up. Before reading that line/commentary i felt perfectly fine watching movies.Now i feel bad because im scared God is asking me to give it up. And if i feel "bad" does that mean i cant watch movies because its "without faith".

It means if you think it is sin, even though it isn't, you still sin because you cannot have faith if you think you are sinning. Simply put.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hello

I have OCD and right now im scared. Beofre my OCD was so severe that I gave up everything (music, entertainment, etc) because i thought it was God asking me to. Since I got medication and a therapist. I got back to watching movies,listening to music and stuff. Though im more careful with what I watch

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty. Like now i feel like its bad to watch movies and God wants me to give it up. Im scared because I want to be a director and recently i joined this film group/class. But what if God is telling me to give it up to test me or something. Like i spent a lot of my time thinking about stories and stuff.

I have OCD, i feel like this is my ocd acting up. Before reading that line/commentary i felt perfectly fine watching movies.Now i feel bad because im scared God is asking me to give it up. And if i feel "bad" does that mean i cant watch movies because its "without faith".

The Romans passage you quoted plays out like this for OCD and other similar conditions:

Anything that does not come from Trust (faith) hurts you (is sin).

If the message from within you comes from a place of trust issues, or no trust at all - it is harmful to you and can be disregarded.

That it was "right" previously does not mean it is "Godly."

Anything that does not come from faith is about examining your own motives for doing an action. If you are unsure you should do something then don't do it. If you are totally unsure of everything, then do nothing and pray. Give the internal struggle the message that you will not play it's game.

That's what the passage you quoted speaks to me in terms of OCD.

 

[disciple Clint]

It means if you think it is sin, even though it isn't, you still sin because you cannot have faith if you think you are sinning. Simply put.

Where does it say that? What verses support that conclusion?

 

[Dave L]

Where does it say that? What verses support that conclusion?

“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.” Romans 14:1–2 (KJV 1900)

“I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.” Romans 14:14 (KJV 1900)

“And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” Romans 14:23 (KJV 1900)

 

[disciple Clint]

“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.” Romans 14:1–2 (KJV 1900)

“I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.” Romans 14:14 (KJV 1900)

“And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” Romans 14:23 (KJV 1900)

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
For whatsoever ... - "Whatever is not done with a full conviction that it is right, is sinful; whatever is done when a man doubts whether it is right, is sin." This is evidently the fair interpretation of this place. Such the connection requires. It does not affirm that all or any of the actions of impenitent and unbelieving people are sinful, which is true, but not the truth taught here; nor does it affirm that all acts which are not performed by those who have faith in the Lord Jesus, are sinful; but the discussion pertains to Christians; and the whole scope of the passage requires us to understand the apostle as simply saying that a man should not do a thing doubting its correctness; that he should have a strong conviction that what he does is right; and that if he has "not" this conviction, it is sinful. The rule is of universal application. In all cases, if a man does a thing which he does not "believe" to be right, it is a sin, and his conscience will condemn him for it. It may be proper, however, to observe that the converse of this is not always true, that if a man believes a thing to be right, that therefore it is not sin. For many of the persecutors were conscientious John 16:2; Acts 26:9; and the murderers of the Son of God did it ignorantly Acts 3:17; 1 Corinthians 2:8; and yet were adjudged as guilty of enormous crimes; compare Luke 11:50-51; Acts 2:23, Acts 2:37.

 

[paul1149]

Recently i read a commentary on Romans 14 and about "anything without faith is a sin".

Suddenly i felt anxiety and guilty

Paul is saying not to intentionally go against your properly informed conscience. But not all consciences are properly formed, and some need to be examined in light of God's word. The entire thrust of this chapter is to strengthen people in their faith, and to help them support each other in their different levels of maturity. Paul is not going to then turn around and condemn the person weak in faith; that would be completely against what he is trying to accomplish here. He's trying to build up, not tear down.

It is the person who only eats vegetables who is weak in faith, according to the analogy Paul uses. Elsewhere, talking about idols, he says they are nothing, but since not everyone knows that he wants us to be mindful of how we deal with idol-related issues. Again, he doesn't want us to harm the weaker brother. The person strong in faith will brush off these issues as unworthy of God.

OCD, as I understand it, is an emotional illness making a person subject to intrusive thoughts. These are not your true conscience speaking, they probably are remnants of impressionable experiences you have had. They are not God speaking. The way to overcome them is to compare them to the truth of the word of God - "for freedom you have been set free, do not be enchained again in a yoke of bondage" (Gal 5.1), etc - and to "cast down any vain imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" (2Cor 10).

Paul, and the Bible, and Jesus, and the Father, is not trying to condemn you and harm you; he is trying to build you up in your most holy faith so that intrusive thinking will no longer dominate you. Once you see this you should exert faith and courage and overcome what hinders you. Jesus came to bring abundant life.

 

[gingertail27]

The Romans passage you quoted plays out like this for OCD and other similar conditions:

Anything that does not come from Trust (faith) hurts you (is sin).

If the message from within you comes from a place of trust issues, or no trust at all - it is harmful to you and can be disregarded.

That it was "right" previously does not mean it is "Godly."

Anything that does not come from faith is about examining your own motives for doing an action. If you are unsure you should do something then don't do it. If you are totally unsure of everything, then do nothing and pray. Give the internal struggle the message that you will not play it's game.

That's what the passage you quoted speaks to me in terms of OCD.

im sorry, but im a little confused. Its just that my OCD can attack anything and feel that its a sin. Thats what happened before, I did nothing and forced myself to pray all day. It got really bad and my mental health was at a worst. I felt i had to pray because my prayers aren't good enough bc my ocd attacked that too.

And im not saying it was "right" in that sense. Im saying i had no issue with it. I made sure to discern what I watched. Now thats gone because of that line. Idk if its my ocd or not

 

[gingertail27]

Paul is saying not to intentionally go against your properly informed conscience. But not all consciences are properly formed, and some need to be examined in light of God's word. The entire thrust of this chapter is to strengthen people in their faith, and to help them support each other in their different levels of maturity. Paul is not going to then turn around and condemn the person weak in faith; that would be completely against what he is trying to accomplish here. He's trying to build up, not tear down.

It is the person who only eats vegetables who is weak in faith, according to the analogy Paul uses. Elsewhere, talking about idols, he says they are nothing, but since not everyone knows that he wants us to be mindful of how we deal with idol-related issues. Again, he doesn't want us to harm the weaker brother. The person strong in faith will brush off these issues as unworthy of God.

OCD, as I understand it, is an emotional illness making a person subject to intrusive thoughts. These are not your true conscience speaking, they probably are remnants of impressionable experiences you have had. They are not God speaking. The way to overcome them is to compare them to the truth of the word of God - "for freedom you have been set free, do not be enchained again in a yoke of bondage" (Gal 5.1), etc - and to "cast down any vain imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" (2Cor 10).

Paul, and the Bible, and Jesus, and the Father, is not trying to condemn you and harm you; he is trying to build you up in your most holy faith so that intrusive thinking will no longer dominate you. Once you see this you should exert faith and courage and overcome what hinders you. Jesus came to bring abundant life.

so should i ignore this feeling?

 

[Dave L]

im sorry, but im a little confused. Its just that my OCD can attack anything and feel that its a sin. Thats what happened before, I did nothing and forced myself to pray all day. It got really bad and my mental health was at a worst. I felt i had to pray because my prayers aren't good enough bc my ocd attacked that too.

And im not saying it was "right" in that sense. Im saying i had no issue with it. I made sure to discern what I watched. Now thats gone because of that line. Idk if its my ocd or not

Define sin by the bible and prove to yourself something is a sin from the bible before calling it a sin. Here's a guideline.

“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” Acts 15:19–20 (KJV 1900)

 

[paul1149]

so should i ignore this feeling?

Let's take a look at the wisdom from above.

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. - Jas 3:17-18​

God's wisdom is characterized by purity, peace, being open to reason, gentleness, full of mercy, etc. You are experiencing a morbid fear that is not reconcilable to those qualities. Rom 8 and 2Tim 1 tell us we have not received a spirit of fear or of slavery.

Jesus beckons you to enter into His rest and into His peace (Mt 11.28-30). If Jesus, who loves you, wants you to know something, He will speak it clearly so you can understand. Considering what you've been through, I think it is highly more likely that this is just an eruption of the flesh. I would treat it as such, and keep on seeking the Lord's clarity and wisdom.

 

[gingertail27]

Let's take a look at the wisdom from above.

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. - Jas 3:17-18​

God's wisdom is characterized by purity, peace, being open to reason, gentleness, full of mercy, etc. You are experiencing a morbid fear that is not reconcilable to those qualities. Rom 8 and 2Tim 1 tell us we have not received a spirit of fear or of slavery.

Jesus beckons you to enter into His rest and into His peace (Mt 11.28-30). If Jesus, who loves you, wants you to know something, He will speak it clearly so you can understand. Considering what you've been through, I think it is highly more likely that this is just an eruption of the flesh. I would treat it as such, and keep on seeking the Lord's clarity and wisdom.

ok, im just so scared because i feel like im being selfish if i dont want to give this up.

 

[gingertail27]

Define sin by the bible and prove to yourself something is a sin from the bible before calling it a sin. Here's a guideline.

“Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” Acts 15:19–20 (KJV 1900)

i thought the bible said if you feel its wrong then its a sin to you. Like drinking wine

 

[Dave L]

i thought the bible said if you feel its wrong then its a sin to you. Like drinking wine

The Bible defines sin. Jesus drank wine. But getting drunk is a sin.

 

[paul1149]

ok, im just so scared because i feel like im being selfish if i dont want to give this up.

God is able to confirm over time if you've chosen the right direction to go in. But you'll never know unless you summon the courage to challenge these "fiery darts". God is for you; don't be afraid.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Gingertail > I am encouraged that you are interested in evaluating these things. We all need to evaluate how we are thinking and feeling and living. And, of course, we all need how God alone is able to have us succeed . . . and not to bleed about things.

I made sure to discern what I watched.

Like I say . . . this is encouraging to me, how you do make an effort to discern. Now we trust God to have you discover how to discern in a way which is good for you, and encouraging. God encourages us to do what He desires.

so should i ignore this feeling?

So . . . since God will encourage us to do what is good, we might consider, then, that we should not trust confusion and fear, but trust God to give us peace with insight and wisdom for whatever He knows He wants to share with us.

Do I do this, all the time? After all, I do watch movies, and their content can be questionable. But what might work is I am caring about the people, and noticing things which might help make me wise to how this world works. For example, I am watching a war movie, right now. But this is not only for my entertainment. I am noticing how the soldiers are getting so friendly with each other; I am seeing how they are human with feelings and ability to relate with each other and form close bonds - - - only to then get killed maybe for nothing. From this I get a lesson, of how it can be so thoughtless to have soldiers go to fight a war, get into very close relationships, then only to get killed so who-knows-who can get control and glory and perhaps some sort of justice. They are humans who could develop in real loving; yet, they are used for something else. So, seeing this movie could give me insight into how this world does things foolishly. And I can be provoked to care more in prayer for people of this world.

So, I can get love lessons from what I watch. But discern . . . yes . . . about where our attention belongs.

i thought the bible said if you feel its wrong then its a sin to you. Like drinking wine

I would say there is some amount of subjective right from wrong. I mean, God has each of us in a unique plan, with special creative details for each of us. So, even for the food we eat, our Father can have detailed preferences for what He wants to share with us.

But . . . by the way . . . faith has to do with love, most of all > "faith working through love," our Apostle Paul does say in Galatians 5:6.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

im sorry, but im a little confused. Its just that my OCD can attack anything and feel that its a sin. Thats what happened before, I did nothing and forced myself to pray all day. It got really bad and my mental health was at a worst. I felt i had to pray because my prayers aren't good enough bc my ocd attacked that too.

And im not saying it was "right" in that sense. Im saying i had no issue with it. I made sure to discern what I watched. Now thats gone because of that line. Idk if its my ocd or not

If OCD attacks your prayers, then sleep. Dealing with an overclocked mind is hard work, rest is necessary more often.

 

[gingertail27]

Hi, Gingertail > I am encouraged that you are interested in evaluating these things. We all need to evaluate how we are thinking and feeling and living. And, of course, we all need how God alone is able to have us succeed . . . and not to bleed about things.Like I say . . . this is encouraging to me, how you do make an effort to discern. Now we trust God to have you discover how to discern in a way which is good for you, and encouraging. God encourages us to do what He desires.

So . . . since God will encourage us to do what is good, we might consider, then, that we should not trust confusing and fear, but trust God to give us peace with insight and wisdom for whatever He knows He wants to share with us.

Do I do this, all the time? After all, I do watch movies, and their content can be questionable. But what might work is I am caring about the people, and noticing things which might help make me wise to how this world works. For example, I am watching a war movie, right now. But this is not only for my entertainment. I am noticing how the soldiers are getting so friendly with each other; I am seeing how they are human with feelings and ability to relate with each other and form close bonds - - - only to then get killed maybe for nothing. From this I get a lesson, of how it can be so thoughtless to have soldiers go to fight a war, get into very close relationships, then only to get killed so who-knows-who can get control and glory and perhaps some sort of justice. They are humans who could develop in real loving; yet, they are used for something else. So, seeing this movie could give me insight into how this world does things foolishly. And I can be provoked to care more in prayer for people of this world.

So, I can get love lessons from what I watch. But discern . . . yes . . . about where our attention belongs.

I would say there is some amount of subjective right from wrong. I mean, God has each of us in a unique plan, with special creative details for each of us. So, even for the food we eat, our Father can have detailed preferences for what He wants to share with us.

But . . . by the way . . . faith has to do with love, most of all > "faith working through love," our Apostle Paul does say in Galatians 5:6.

thank you so much for this