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Can someone be saved and deny Jesus being God

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by Ultimate, Jun 24, 2002.

  1. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Yes, you can..its an arguable theological point. If Christ isn't God then 1. the fundamentalists' interpretation of half the Bible is wrong 2. God gave him the authority to do the things he said he could and 3. his blood is thereby payable for all debts to sin.
     
  2. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Besides, if your belief system is wrong on certain doctrinal issues, and you still rely on God's grace through Jesus to save you, you are still saved. If I turn on my TV thinking a little man in the set opens the "window" and starts talking to me, the TV is still on.  You don't have to belong to the Louis Booth Club to be a Christian.
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "1. the fundamentalists' interpretation of half the Bible is wrong 2. God gave him the authority to do the things he said he could and 3. his blood is thereby payable for all debts to sin."

    *sigh* wrong bro. It means the bible contradicts itself, God was wrong in saying Christ is the Son of God (ie authority and saying he is God) and his blood didn't mean anything, nor can it be payable for any sin.

    If Christ isn't God then he is human and ALL humans are sinful, born into sin. You have to believe in basic christian docterine to be a christian, if you don't you deny the bible and Christ himself. Read up on it. If you need some help go to carm.org
     
  4. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    God does not require that you subscribe to basic Fundamentalist doctrine. Show me where it says that. I see that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Being a Christian is determined by one's relationship with God (submission to his Lordship), not a cerebral assent to someone's (your) interpretation of his ways. "Son of God"? We are Sons of God, does that make us God? The only thing clear is that there are things unclear. Thank God that we don't have to have all the answers to become his child! Whosoever acknowledges Christ's lordship and believes in his resurrection "will be saved." Period.

    And you'll have to be more specific than "carm.org" if you want to debunk that.
     
  5. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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  6. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "Show me where it says that. "

    The bible is full of warnings not to be fooled by people that are false teachers..now if they are false..what is the right teaching then eh? Di, you need to read the book of colossians. Christ is God, if you don't believe that you don't know him, nor do you know the Father or the HS.

    http://www.carm.org/doctrine/essentials.htm
     
  7. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    I can't argue any more. I've already shown you the words of the Bible, and you give me a page that spins some Bible verses into man's doctrines. I haven't seen anywhere that, "Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Deity, and only then will you be a Christian." Until I do, I will not play God and tell those who do what the Bible says and yet aren't sure that Jesus is Deity that they do not even know God.  I won't even tell Catholics when to stop ragging the Protestants.
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    *sigh* you can beleieve that all you want bro, remember those words? "depart from me I never knew you" If you don't know who Christ is.....
     
  9. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    carm.org, ah yes, the site that groups Catholics in with cults and other false religions. Nice.
     
  10. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    s0uljah,

    What's wrong with that? Oohhh, you're Catholic...oh please, before it's too late, remember those words, "Depart from me, I never knew you!" ;)
     
  11. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    Yeah, and I also remember the passage about removing the beam from one's eye, before trying to get the splinter out from your brothers. :)
     
  12. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Huh?  I don't see that on carm.org anywhere!  Must be one of those "Catholic" scriptures.  You know, from the apocrypha.  :D
     
  13. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "carm.org, ah yes, the site that groups Catholics in with cults and other false religions. Nice.
    "

    *sigh* not everyone is perfect are they?
     
  14. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    so soul, question..are you missing a baby? I think you threw him/her out with the bathwater...
     
  15. Chris†opher Paul

    Chris†opher Paul Based on a True Story

    +4
    You mean like what Martin Luther did with the Catholic Church?

    Or will you give me a "warning" for speaking the truth?  If so, it isn't in my best interest to answer you.  If I can speak freely, then I will be glad to respond.
     
  16. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

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    I think the reason your friend struggles with this idea is because it is very possible the scripture has revealed to your friend the real truth that the doctrine of the trinity is nowhere to be found in scripture and he is suddenly finding out that he is at odds with his peers in the body of Christ!  I think the real question on this topic shoud be "can someone be saved by believing in a doctrine that is only supported by traditions of church orthodoxy and creeds but not supported by the authority of scripture" ?  The biblical definition of the deity of Christ is not that He is God.  Nowhere in scripture does Jesus Himself ever refer to Himself as the father, never does Jesus the Son of God ever refer to Himself as God. 

    1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 4:15, "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

    These are quoted to prove "we are warned not to belittle Christ." This is very true, and Trinitarians do not realize how they are belittling Christ and nullifying his work by adopting the Platonic ideas which make his struggle and obedience and overcoming and resisting temptation an unreal pantomime by an almighty, all-knowing and untemptable God. Jesus Christ rendered perfect obedience, never sinned, overcame every weakness and temptation. Therefore God hath exalted him that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow (Philippians 2:9-10).

     

     
     
  17. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "You mean like what Martin Luther did with the Catholic Church?
    "

    No, he didn't throw out everything if you actually read what he wrote. He puts great emphasis on what the church fathers had to say, just not akin to cannon. Its not like it at all. I was telling you the cite isn't the best in terms of looking at catholics, but its dead on on most other things.

    "The biblical definition of the deity of Christ is not that He is God. "

    *sigh* yes it is. It in and of itself is not a platonic idea. the idea newly put forth by the matrix is a platonic idea, not trinity.

    Christ is God. That's what the bible says.
     
  18. KeepTheFaith15

    KeepTheFaith15 Thats Me whats can i say?

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    no you cant be saved but deny god cause thats strictly losing the point of salvation period, you can get on your knees and ask god to make it clearer for you and ask god to forgive you for doubting and then start beleiving from then on make things right with god and it will all go good for you.
     
  19. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    And LouisBooth is his prophet, and the infallible sage who reads between the lines to tell us what he calls obvious.
     
  20. Didaskomenos

    Didaskomenos Voiced Bilabial Spirant

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    Besides, the knowledge that the Bible says something doesn't make one saved. And not knowing something the Bible says isn't going to send you to hell. The Bible at no point says that we have to think of Jesus as the second person in the Trinity to be saved. It just says we have to make him our Lord.
     
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