Can some principle of truth from Psalms 19:7-11 be applied today?

[Bible Highlighter]

You never answered the questions that I asked you in post #52 (unless I missed them somehow), the same ones that I just asked you again in post #67 above. If you did, I'll need to have you point your answers out to me (and I apologize for the inconvenience if that's the case).

Thanks!

--David

Yes, I believe did answer your questions. Please go back and check the post numbers.

 

[eleos1954]

@eleos1954

I just started to notice. This is getting off topic. You are desiring to talk about whether or not the OT Saturday Sabbath command still applies today. The topic of this thread is about whether or not Psalms 19:7-11 can be applied to us today as Christians. I think we should stick to discussing the actual topic of the thread because we are not going to agree on the Sabbath, friend. If you want to promote or discuss how the OT Sabbath still applies today, then please start another thread. I do not want to interrupt the purpose of what this thread is really about.

Thank you.

Blessings to you in the Lord,

Sincerely,

~ J.

Well yes and no ....

@eleos1954

I just started to notice. This is getting off topic. You are desiring to talk about whether or not the OT Saturday Sabbath command still applies today. The topic of this thread is about whether or not Psalms 19:7-11 can be applied to us today as Christians. I think we should stick to discussing the actual topic of the thread because we are not going to agree on the Sabbath, friend. If you want to promote or discuss how the OT Sabbath still applies today, then please start another thread. I do not want to interrupt the purpose of what this thread is really about.

Thank you.

Blessings to you in the Lord,

Sincerely,

~ J.

well not really, it is in regard to the OP ... Psalms 19:7 begins with

The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul ...

You don't believe the 4th commandment is part of the law and is for Jews only, so I guess therefore you believe the law (10 commandments) are imperfect in that manner. I believe the 4th is included and that all 10 are inseparable and are indeed perfect.

but ... ok ... you don't what to talk about it here in this thread, I"m good with that ;o)

 

[~Zao~]

So you would follow Jesus’s example in telling a person to reconcile with their brother before offering an animal sacrifice? That is what you must do if you believe the Old Law (the Sabbath) is still in effect.

Does this verse make it clearer that the gifts at the altar have been replaced (edit to transformed, not replaced) as well as the altar?
Hebrews 9
9 This is a symbol for the present time. It shows that the gifts and sacrifices that are being offered can’t perfect the conscience of the one who is serving. 10 These are superficial regulations that are only about food, drink, and various ritual ways to wash with water. They are regulations that have been imposed until the time of the new order.

 

[St_Worm2]

Yes, I believe did answer your questions. Please go back and check the post numbers.

I just read through everything you wrote in reply to me again. You didn't quote post #52, and you didn't answer the two questions (these questions)............

1. How do you define the Gospel/the Good News? IOW, what is the Good News, and what makes it "Good" news?

2. Conversely, what is the "bad news" (that the Good News seeks to remedy)?​

.........from the bottom of that post, either directly or indirectly (at least .. again .. not that I could see anyway). If your answers are there, and I have missed them somehow, I would still appreciate having you point them out to me (because I can't find them). If you don't care to answer the questions, that is, of course, your prerogative.

--David

 

[Greengardener]

So you would follow Jesus’s example in telling a person to reconcile with their brother before offering an animal sacrifice? That is what you must do if you believe the Old Law (the Sabbath) is still in effect.

So you would follow Jesus’s example in telling a person to reconcile with their brother before offering an animal sacrifice? That is what you must do if you believe the Old Law (the Sabbath) is still in effect.

I would wonder if there is a similar intent today, even if we don't have animal sacrifices. Perhaps what Jesus said (go and be reconciled with your brother before you sacrifice and possibly feast) would still hold true today. Perhaps it would mean not to delay, not to put off that reconciliation in order to do other more obvious religious activities, so that you aren't being a play actor pretending to be good while harboring problems in your heart to your brother, and so you can really feast by being in right relationship with both God and your brother. That would fit in with the verse that indicates, "if you can't love your brother that you see, how can you say you love God Whom you can't see." So, yes, I'd follow Jesus' example, and I believe you would too, BH. Jesus continually pointed to the intent of the commandment, since his legalistic audience needed those constant reminders. I'm always amazed at the ongoing battle in my own life to not do the same thing. I've appreciated reading in this thread. Thank you all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I would wonder if there is a similar intent today, even if we don't have animal sacrifices. Perhaps what Jesus said (go and be reconciled with your brother before you sacrifice and possibly feast) would still hold true today. Perhaps it would mean not to delay, not to put off that reconciliation in order to do other more obvious religious activities, so that you aren't being a play actor pretending to be good while harboring problems in your heart to your brother, and so you can really feast by being in right relationship with both God and your brother. That would fit in with the verse that indicates, "if you can't love your brother that you see, how can you say you love God Whom you can't see." So, yes, I'd follow Jesus' example, and I believe you would too, BH. Jesus continually pointed to the intent of the commandment, since his legalistic audience needed those constant reminders. I'm always amazed at the ongoing battle in my own life to not do the same thing.

Yes, I agree you can apply this in a slightly different way (that is close to the heart of the intent of what Jesus is commanding here), but we cannot obviously follow it literally to it's fullest extent in the sense of offering an animal sacrifice (as I am sure you would agree).

I've appreciated reading in this thread. Thank you all.

I am glad you enjoyed reading the thread.

May God's blessings be upon you, brother.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well yes and no ....


well not really, it is in regard to the OP ... Psalms 19:7 begins with

The law of the Lord is perfect,
refreshing the soul ...

You don't believe the 4th commandment is part of the law and is for Jews only, so I guess therefore you believe the law (10 commandments) are imperfect in that manner. I believe the 4th is included and that all 10 are inseparable and are indeed perfect.

but ... ok ... you don't what to talk about it here in this thread, I"m good with that ;o)

First, not sure if you are aware of this but the creator of the thread decides what the topic is. Not other people. For the creator of the thread can change the title of thread anytime.

Second, I am referring to New Covenant Law or commands. I am referring to God's laws in the NT in general (God's NT commands are clearly mentioned and no Sabbath is mentioned; I know. I did the study). I am referring to God's commands as they are specifically mentioned, and I am talking about the Law of the NT. This thread is not about the Sabbath. My thread. My rules (Note: For if I want, I can add to the title of the thread to say "Please no Sabbath talk").

Why? Well, I do not want this thread to divert into a discussion forever about the Sabbath. The topic is about Psalms 19:7-11 and how it relates to God's laws in general in the NT and not one specific command from the OT like the Sabbath, etc.

 

[eleos1954]

First, not sure if you are aware of this but the creator of the thread decides what the topic is. Not other people. For the creator of the thread can change the title of thread anytime.

Second, I am referring to New Covenant Law or commands. I am referring to God's laws in the NT in general (God's NT commands are clearly mentioned and no Sabbath is mentioned; I know. I did the study). I am referring to God's commands as they are specifically mentioned, and I am talking about the Law of the NT. This thread is not about the Sabbath. My thread. My rules (Note: For if I want, I can add to the title of the thread to say "Please no Sabbath talk").

Why? Well, I do not want this thread to divert into a discussion forever about the Sabbath. The topic is about Psalms 19:7-11 and how it relates to God's laws in general in the NT and not one specific command from the OT like the Sabbath, etc.

ok ... whatever ... people don't want to keep the Sabbath and think it was carved out of the middle of the 10 specifically for the Jews, yet accept to keep the other 9 that's up to them

I'll quit posting in this thread about the Sabbath as you wish.

God Bless.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hi again @Bible Highlighter, I believe there has been a bit of misunderstanding concerning what was written in my last post, so I'll see if I can clear some of that up for you. Concerning this quote (at the bottom of my last post)....

​

...you wrote:

"The words within this pic appears to imply a sin and still be saved type belief on some level. For it is saying that the law is for the self righteous to humble their pride (Which implies that a person cannot live righteously). It also says that the gospel is for the lost (implying that they can remain as lost sinners who continue to disobey God's commands on some level)." ~ Bible Highlighter

The words of this quote are not referring to a person who has already been saved, so the quote has nothing to do with, "sin and still be saved".

Likewise, it does not imply or state the obvious fact that an ~unsaved~ person in incapable of living a righteous/holy life.

Your statement here has nothing to do with what I actually said or stated. I am not talking about people who do not believe in Jesus at all (like atheists, etc.), I am referring to believers who think they can sin and still be saved on some level. That is what the pic of Charle's Spurgeon's statement implies. This should not be a surprise. Even Spurgeon's own words defend that a believer can sin and still be saved on some level.

The context of the pic of the words you quote proves he believed he could be a sinner on some level, and still be saved (while being a sinner) by having a mere belief alone on Jesus. For this is what Charles says (in context to the quote you provided by him),

"I know that it is to me even to this day the greatest wonder that I ever heard of, that God should ever justify me. I feel myself to be a lump of unworthiness, a mass of corruption, and a heap of sin, apart from His almighty love." ~ Charles Spurgeon.

"A sinner is a sacred thing;" ~ Charles Spurgeon.

Finally, I believe that the Gospel (Jesus Christ and Him crucified) is, first and foremost, for the lost, because it's in that message that the hope of salvation can be found. There is also nothing in these words of Spurgeon's that implies that those who come to Christ can remain lost sinners, who continue to live a life of sin, and be saved. Those who do are not saved.

Sorry, I believe he contradicts himself like many who believe as he does. He may say on the one hand that we must follow the Lord and or live holy, etc., but on the other hand, he will make statements that says we are justified and saved sinners (in our present tense walk with God and not as a past declaration only), etc.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1. ...what is the Good News,..?

What is the gospel (i.e. the good news)?

The gospel:

The gospel is believing Christ died for our sins, believing He was buried, and that He rose again on the third day (according to the Scriptures). But we also have to obey the gospel (according to Scripture), too.


What is obeying the gospel (i.e. the good news)?

Well, the Bible refers to three places about “not obeying the gospel.” All three places within the Bible that talk about “not obeying the gospel” are used in an unfavorable light. For they refer to the Lord condemning anyone who does not “obey the gospel” (Romans 10:16) (2 Thessalonians 1:8) (1 Peter 4:17). In fact, if you were to stop and think for a moment, “obeying” is different than “believing.” Therefore, one must also obey the gospel and not just believe it alone. Can this line of thinking be supported with Scripture? Yes, absolutely.

Examples of “obedience to the faith” (Romans 16:26) can be seen in Hebrews 11 (Which is the great hall of faith chapter of God’s people). What is interesting is that this chapter is not about uplifting how men of God can sin and still be saved, but is about uplifting men of God obeying God after they had believed. This makes sense because James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18). This is not about just doing good works while a believer also sins while they have a belief on Jesus. For Jesus did not accept those believers who did wonderful works and yet they also worked sin or iniquity (See: Matthew 7:23). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Note on 1 Thessalonians 1:8: Those who do not know God do not keep his commandments; For that person who says they knows the Lord and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (See 1 John 2:4).

We know the gospel is believing in Christ’s death and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (1 Corinthians 15:11) (Romans 1:16).

But obeying is clearly different than simply believing. A place where we see in the Bible an example of obeying the gospel is in Romans chapter 6.

We can obey the “death of Christ” aspect of the gospel:

Verse 4 talks about how we are buried into Christ’s death by baptism.

This is “spirit baptism” (verses 3-4) (i.e. being baptized into the Spirit). How so? Well, there is one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), and being “spirit baptized” into Jesus Christ can be seen in Acts of the Apostles 19:1-6 with Paul baptizing (in the name of Jesus) certain disciples in Ephesus by the laying on of hands (and not by water baptism). We also learn that accepting the gospel can also lead to one being spirit baptized (See Acts of the Apostles 10:42-45). Acts of the Apostles 3:19 says “repent and be converted.” (Note: Repentance is seeking forgiveness of one’s sins with the Lord; See: Matthew 3:6, Matthew 3:8, Mark 1:4-5, Acts of the Apostles 8:22, etc.). This means that if a person comes to the Lord for the first time they are converted or given a new heart with new desires (i.e. we are born again spiritually) and in many cases they can receive the Holy Ghost as a gift at this point. Verse 5 talks about this spirit baptism as being planted together in the likeness of his death. Verse 6 says that the old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed.

Seeking God’s mercy is at the heart of putting away unrighteousness. For it is written: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).


We can obey the “resurrection of Christ” aspect of the gospel:

So as Christ was raise from the dead, so we must also should walk in newness of life. Is this essential to salvation? Yes.

Romans 8:13 says,

“For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

...and what makes it "Good" news?

What makes it the good news?

What makes the gospel (good news) as being good?

The gospel is good news to us because we can be forgiven of our past sins, and we can be set free from being a slave to committing grievous sins.

Christ brings victory in our lives, not only in forgiveness of our sins when we first come to Him, but He brings victory in our lives by helping us to overcome grievous or serious sin.

For there is nothing that can transform or changes lives more than Jesus Christ; That is why God's people preach the good news of Jesus Christ so as to be saved by Him. For Jesus has fixed up broken homes (or families). Jesus has drawn the alcoholic away from the bottle. Jesus has helped the gambler to put down his cards and walk away from the game. Jesus has helped the drug addict from the power of the needle. Jesus has helped the harlot from being a slave to sexual sin and money. For Jesus Christ changes lives. Jesus changed my life and He continues to change lives today (Making them new creations in His image).

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17).​

Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (See: 1 John 3:8). This would not only be a person’s past slate of sins being wiped away, but this would also include Christ destroying the works of the devil within a believer’s life, too (i.e. to help them to overcome grievous sin).

God’s grace leads to righteous living (i.e. Victory over grievous sin):

For while it is true that grace abounds (Romans 5:20), it is also equally true that grace reigns through righteousness (i.e. righteous living) (Romans 5:21).

For the grace of God teaches to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that Christ died so that He might sanctify His church with the washing of the water of the Word (i.e. Scripture) so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy, and without blemish.

That surely is good news.

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
(1 John 5:19).

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16).​

The good works are the good works of the Lord done through us. For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5), and it is God who works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). For the fruits of the Spirit should be within our lives, like: Love, joy, peace, etc. (See: Galatians 5:22-23). But if one does the works of the flesh (like adultery, murder, drunkeness, etc.), they will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Inheriting the Kingdom of God is dealing with one’s entrance into God’s kingdom (See Matthew 25:34, and Matthew 25:21, Matthew 25:30).

Conclusion:

The good news would include true forgiveness of sins, overcoming grievous sin (and have the fruits of the Spirit and abide in His love), and entering God’s kingdom one day so as to be with the Lord Jesus Christ and His love and or goodness.

2. Conversely, what is the "bad news" (that the Good News seeks to remedy)?

The bad news would be no forgiveness of sins, and no victory over sin and thus punishment for one’s sins for a time in the Lake of Fire (with one’s eventual annihilation).

Thanks!

--David

Your welcome.
I hope that what I said here helps.

May God's goodness be upon you today.

~ J.

 

[Soyeong]

Can some principle of truth from Psalms 19:7-11 be applied today?

"7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward." (Psalms 19:7-11).​

While Psalms 19:7-11 is referring to the Old Law, I believe that the basic principle of truth behind God's laws remains the same today for the New Covenant Laws, as well. if not, then what is the point of this passage in our Bibles? Yes, it is Old Covenant, and it is referring to the Old Law, but can we not apply this passage to our lives today with the Laws in the New Testament?

Is the Law of the Lord today (New Covenant Law) really perfect?
Can the New Covenant Law really convert the soul?
Can the commandment of the Lord (i.e. the commandment of the Lord from the New Testament) truly enlighten the eyes?

Can New Covenant Law truly warn us as servants?
Is there a great reward in keeping New Covenant Law?

Side Note:

I am also not denying that we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that God's grace is where it starts and it is our ultimate source of salvation. For without Jesus, nobody could be saved and or have their past slate of sins wiped out. But what of God's laws for today under the New Testament? Do we ignore or minimize them because we got grace?

If we believe that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we should therefore share it. David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved God's Law and delighted in obeying it, and Paul also delighted in obeying it (Romans 7:12), so he was on the same page as David. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, so that is how God is gracious to us. In Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, so they will never become old. Everything that was taught in the NT is based on and in accordance with what was taught in the OT, so the same thing could be applied to the NT Law.

According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct us how to do. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to 2 Peter 3:17-18, growing in grace is contrasted with being taken away with the error of Lawless men. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into license for immorality. According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His Law (Psalm 40:8), so grace is the power of God to overcome Lawlessness in our lives and it is by grace that God teaches us to walk in His ways in accordance with His Law.

 

[Soyeong]

There are more than just 10. There are 615 Old Covenant Laws. But out of the 10: I believe only the 9 out of the 10 apply today. The Saturday Sabbath command was not repeated as a command in the New Covenant. I know. I have recently done a deep study on the commands in the New Testament. Well, I am doing a lot of polishing up and double checking, etc. But I definitely would have caught such a command (if it existed in the NT).

If what Jesus taught was not the same as what the Father taught, then that would mean that Jesus was in disagreement with the Father, and I see no indication of this. On the contrary, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so if we love him, then we will obey what the Father has taught, and the Father taught His followers to keep the Sabbath holy (Exodus 20:8-11). Jesus said nothing about editing the Law down to just the ones that he repeated and we shouldn't even need him to have repeated anything in order for us to know that we should still obey the Father. Jesus taught how to keep the Sabbath holy through his interactions with the Pharisees on the topic, but he was sinless, so even if he had said nothing, then he would have still taught full obedience to the Mosaic Law by example, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), and to be imitators of him (1 Corinthians 11:1).

Colossians 2:14-17 talks about how we are not to judge according to Sabbaths, and Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us.

Whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This serves as perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's Law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with any of God's laws being nailed to the cross, especially because all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). So all of God's laws are eternally valid regardless of whether or not Jesus repeated them.

If you look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous as to whether Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them for obeying God's holy days or for not obeying them. However, if we keep in mind that we must obey God rather than man and examine the surrounding context of what it describes of the views of the people who were judging them, such as in verse 8 and 20-23, then it become clear that the Colossians were being judged by pagans teach human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body. This means that the Colossians were being judged because they were keeping God's holy days and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God because God's holy days are important foreshadows of what is to come.

Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

To suggest that the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness has changed is to suggest that His righteousness is not eternal. The context of Hebrews 7:12 is speaking about a transition of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a transition of the Law in regard to its administration. It is not speaking about changes to the content of God's eternal Law, such as with it becoming righteous to commit murder or sinful to help the poor, but rather those instructions will always be externally valid.

 

[Soyeong]

A. Jesus was making changes to the Law:

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Law, and Jesus was sinless, therefore he did not make any changes to it. He was not in disagreement with what the Father had commanded. Whenever Jesus directly quoted Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting from what the people of his day had heard being taught against Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "you have heard that it was said", so his emphasis on the different from of communication is important. He was not speaking against what was written, but rather he was proceeding to fulfill the Law by correcting what was wrongly being taught about it and by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it as it was originally intended.

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).

"An eye for an eye" is still a good guideline for judges to make sure that the punishment in not greater than the crime, however, it was a guideline given only to judges and was not intended to be use in personal situations to justify taking vengeance into our own hands. In such situations, we are told not to repay in kind (Proverbs 20:22, 24:29).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).

In Leviticus 19:17, we are told not to hate our brother in our heart.

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).

Leviticus 19:12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.

Someone who is focused on the spirit of this law will understand what we are not to swear falsely, but someone who was focused on the letter of this law exactly how it was written would understand that we can swear falsely as long as we don't do so in God's name, which is the heart of the issue that Jesus was speaking against in verses 34-37, where the Pharisees were swearing by something other than God's name in order to add weight to their promise while leaving room for them to back out of it.

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.

Your note beat me to a couple verses that I was going to quote, but I wouldn't say it was only the Israelite people:

Deuteronomy 23:7 “You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were a sojourner in his land. 8 Children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the Lord.

In Leviticus 19:18, it says that we should love our neighbor as ourselves and in Leviticus 19:34, we should love the stranger as ourselves. They notably do not instruct us to hate our enemies as Matthew 5:43 states, which is the clearest indication that Jesus was not speaking against what was written.

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).

John 8:1-12 is an example of Jesus acting in accordance with the Law requires. There was no judge to pronounce a sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21), there was no man accused (Leviticus 20:10), he didn't have any witnesses to examine (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 19:15), and he did not have a confession, so if he had condemned her, then he would have acted in violation of the Law. Just a few verses later Jesus said that he judged no one (John 8:15) and he also said that he came not to judge (John 12:47), so he did not exercise authority as a magistrate and did not condemn her, but he did recognize her action as sin, and told her to go and sin no more.

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).

Either there are right and wrong reasons for someone becoming circumcised or Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy in Acts 16:3 and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US who are circumcised. In 1 Corinthians 7:19, Paul said that circumcision has no value, what matters is obeying the commandments of God, however, he also said in Romans 3:1-2, that circumcision has has much value in every day, so the issue is that the value of circumcision is entirely derived from whether someone obeys God's Law (Romans 2:25). The way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's Law (Romans 2:26), which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 10:12-16). We should be careful not to take something that was only against becoming circumcised for the wrong reasons as being against obeying what God has commanded.

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

In John 1:16-17, it says grace upon grace and verse 17 lists both Christ and the Mosaic Law as examples of this, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. Verse 17 does not contain the word "but" in the Greek.

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).

Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law in contrast with abolishing it, so you should not interpret that as meaning essentially the same thing. "To fulfill the Law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the Law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3). After Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law in Matthew 5, this is precisely what he then proceeded to do six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it. In Galatians 5:14, loving your neighbor fulfills the entire Law, so Jesus was one of countless people who have done that. In Galatians 6:2 says that bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, so you should interpret it in the same way as fulfilling the Law and the Prophets, namely obeying it as it should be, not as doing away with it. In Romans 15:18-19, it says that Paul fulfilled the Gospel, which again referred to causing Gentiles to become fully obedient to it in word and in deed, not to doing away with it.​

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

While it is true that we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to walk in the same ways and express the same character traits. For example, God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant we are under, but as part of the New Covenant, we are told that those who do not follow those instructions are not children of God (1 John 3:10).

Sin was in the world before the Law was given (Romans 5:13), so there was nothing that became sinful or righteous when the Law was given, but rather the Law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. For example, in Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery long before the Mosaic Law was given, so it did not become sinful when the Mosaic Covenant was made or cease to be sinful after it has become obsolete. The New Covenant involves God putting His Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so while the Mosaic Covenant as becoming obsolete, God's eternal righteousness and righteous Law did not become obsolete along with it.

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

At no point was the women ever set free from having to obey God's Law, but rather with the death of her husband she was only set free from the aspect of the Law that would cause her to commit adultery if she were to live with other man while her husband was still alive. If after her husband died she were to get married to another man, then she would still be required to refrain from committing adultery. It wouldn't make any sense to interpret that verse as us needing to be set free from God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to be free to bear fruit for Him.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying God's Law, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive. If Romans 7:5-6 were referring to God's Law, then that would mean that he delighted in stirring up sinful passions to bear fruit unto death and that he delighted in being held captive, which would be absurd, but rather it is the law of sin that Paul described as holding him captive.

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

Ephesians 2:15 is referring to a law that is temporary, but God's Law is eternal, so it could not be referring to God's Law. God did not make any mistakes that He needed to sent Jesus to correct, so He had no need to break down His own laws. Furthermore, God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His Law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

When God has commanded something and you think that the author of Hebrews spoke against what God has commanded, then you have a decision to make about which one has the higher authority and which one to follow. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine whether someone was a false prophet who was not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His Law. So if you think that the author of Hebrews did that, then according to God, you should disregard everything that he said. However, the author of Hebrews was not an enemy of God, so he did not do that.

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1)

The problem with Acts 15:1 was that the purpose that God commanded circumcision was never in order to become saved, so the issue was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose that God commanded it for. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's Law by correctly ruling against that requirement, and a ruling against obeying something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded.

The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God or to tell anyone not to obey any of His laws, nor did they do so, nor should they be followed instead of God even if you think that is what they were doing.

When you have a large number of Gentile believers coming out of paganism who are unfamiliar with Christianity, then in order to avoid overwhelming them, it becomes important to be on the same page about which things need to be taught right away and which things can be taught overtime as they mature in their faith. So the four laws listed in Acts 15:19-21 are a starting point, which they excused in verse 21 by saying that they would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

(2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, God said that His Law was not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so the fact that the Law is a ministry of death for those who refuse to obey it is not a very good reason to do that.

The Mosaic Law brings us to Christ because everything in it teaches us about who he is, how to walk as he walked, and how to grow in a relationship with him. This is what the veil was preventing those who read the Law from seeing, but it is a veil that works both ways that prevents those who read the NT from seeing the same thing.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Soyeong

I have no interest in debating which laws are applicable today and what Jesus actually taught. That is not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread is to discuss if there is some applicable truth to Psalms 19:7-11 for today under the New Covenant (in light of the Law being changed - Hebrews 7:12).