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Featured Can some principle of truth from Psalms 19:7-11 be applied today?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Bible Highlighter, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Can some principle of truth from Psalms 19:7-11 be applied today?

    "7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
    8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
    9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
    10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
    11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward." (Psalms 19:7-11).​

    While Psalms 19:7-11 is referring to the Old Law, I believe that the basic principle of truth behind God's laws remains the same today for the New Covenant Laws, as well. if not, then what is the point of this passage in our Bibles? Yes, it is Old Covenant, and it is referring to the Old Law, but can we not apply this passage to our lives today with the Laws in the New Testament?

    Is the Law of the Lord today (New Covenant Law) really perfect?
    Can the New Covenant Law really convert the soul?
    Can the commandment of the Lord (i.e. the commandment of the Lord from the New Testament) truly enlighten the eyes?

    Can New Covenant Law truly warn us as servants?
    Is there a great reward in keeping New Covenant Law?

    Side Note:

    I am also not denying that we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. I believe that God's grace is where it starts and it is our ultimate source of salvation. For without Jesus, nobody could be saved and or have their past slate of sins wiped out. But what of God's laws for today under the New Testament? Do we ignore or minimize them because we got grace?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  2. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Citizen of the Kingdom Supporter

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    If it speaks to your heart then it’s useful, no?
     
  3. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    i think that to think we are saved when we walk contrary of God's word is a lie and not the truth of God at all. The Author of the letter to the Hebrews tells us that God's Word is a two edge sword and will cut anything in opposition to it out of our hearts and minds.

    Hebrews 4:12-13. "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account."

    So yes God's word is essential in our walk with God for only when we know the truth written therein can the Spirit of truth save us from ourselves in opposition to that.

    However i believe that in the New Testament Jesus shows us that the word is spiritual first of all and that He taught His disciples through His Spirit to apply the truth of His Word to the heart. Just as Psalm 19 does as well.

    1 Corinthians 2:13 "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words."

    The kingdom of God is within and among us but only through His Word can we find Him like that. For the freedom that The Word brings is not through keeping the law by the letter but only when we obey His law of love for then The Word comes and lives in us spiritually.

    John 14:23 "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."
     
  4. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Citizen of the Kingdom Supporter

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    Psalms 19:12-14
    But who can discern their own errors?
    Forgive my hidden faults.
    Keep your servant also from willful sins;
    may they not rule over me.
    Then I will be blameless,
    innocent of great transgression.
    May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart
    be pleasing in your sight,
    Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.​

    Here David is speaking of the hidden sins as was Jesus in the Mount discourse. But until the coming of Christ the law couldn’t do that. All scripture should be evaluated in light of the full disclosure of the bible.
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe God's laws (New Testament Laws) today are merely guide posts to lead us to the Lord, and to keep us within His good ways (by which He works through us - whereby He gets all the praise and glory).

    But keeping God's laws is essential to life. For in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Also see Matthew 19:17-19).

    1 John 3:23 is a command that says we are to believe on Jesus.

    Acts of the Apostles 17:30 says repentance is a commandment (Note: I believe seeking forgiveness with the Lord is "repentance" and that "forsaking sin and doing good works" is the "fruits of repentance").

    David said he hid God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11). This appears to loosely fit Psalms 19:7 that says that the Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

    Even John says that to hate our brother (i.e. the opposite of loving our neighbor or brother) means that we are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). So we have to obey the command in loving our neighbor. Obedience to God's commands changes us and makes us more into the likeness of Christ's image via by the power of the Lord working in us.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Romans 7:14-24 appears to cast doubt on this position, but I believe Paul was attacking the false Pharisee religion that left out God's grace and made salvation all about Law alone under the Torah. So yes. The Law alone without God's grace cannot convert one's soul. Grace is where it starts always. But after grace, the commands of the Lord should play an integral part of our being saved by God's grace. For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
     
  7. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Citizen of the Kingdom Supporter

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    If you mean that they are patterns that lead to an understanding of God then I agree wholeheartedly.

    Loving God and loving neighbour is the sum of the 10 commandments also.

    That characterizes faith, while loving neighbour characterizes love. The first is receiving the divine nature and the second is living from that nature. These are my beliefs.

    This is where the mediatorship of Christ comes in. Sins need to be acknowledged and forgiven to have the conscience cleansed so that we can have confidence in the Lord that His will is being done in us and thru us.

    I’m convinced that Daniel wrote Psalms 119 (see here for reasons Jesus forms the way of discipleship) which would make more sense because David didn’t do so well not sinning. His whole family was condemned to live by the sword because of it. 2 Samuel 12:10

    Amen
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not sure what you mean by that.

    There are more than just 10. There are 615 Old Covenant Laws. But out of the 10: I believe only the 9 out of the 10 apply today. The Saturday Sabbath command was not repeated as a command in the New Covenant. I know. I have recently done a deep study on the commands in the New Testament. Well, I am doing a lot of polishing up and double checking, etc. But I definitely would have caught such a command (if it existed in the NT). Colossians 2:14-17 talks about how we are not to judge according to Sabbaths, and Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us.

    I understand; And I agree to an extent. But the Bible also says that we need to endure to the end as a part of salvation. We are told to continue in the faith, continue in the grace of God, continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (like the Jews). We are told to keep ourselves in the love of God (See Acts of the Apostles 13:43, Acts of the Apostles 14:22, Romans 11:21-22, and Jude 1:21).

    I assume you mean mediatorship involves us having a free will to either accept that path or not to accept that path. Or do you believe the new nature overrides one's free will?

    My wife and I were talking about Daniel today. Interesting.

    Thank you for the interesting tip. I will have to investigate this further.

    Blessings to you in the Lord.
     
  9. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Citizen of the Kingdom Supporter

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    The patterns that Paul puts forth of marriage are only that, An allegory of the church’s standing with God.

    The Sabbath rest is most certainly in the NT. In the OT it’s depicted as accompanying the manna that only carried thru on that day. Today we have Christ as our manna and our rest.


    If we have faith and love it doesn’t make sense that we would suddenly revert to our old nature again. Unless we went back to following the law, that would be disregarding what Christ died for.



    I don’t believe that the new nature overrides freewill. We have to chose not to give occasion to the flesh but when we do we have Christ as mediator. If we know what to do and don’t do it then my belief is loss of rewards. Imo we all are set free of sin and guilt completely, given everything that belongs to our inheritance, But we can still choose to throw it away. Abiding is the guarantee that no matter the pruning we will stay in His will rather than be just saved and have all our works burned. As the prodigal’s Father welcomed him home, no mention was made of anything but a robe, a ring, and a party. Loss of inheritance. Makes no mention of that being returned.



    GBY Have a good night.
     
  10. LoreneDD

    LoreneDD Citizen of the Kingdom Supporter

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    Can you outline for us what you consider to be the answers to these questions? The more I look at them the more I realize I don’t have a clue where your coming from.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    How does God's commands relate to the patterns of marriage?
    Is there a Bible verse or passage that talks about this?
    Are you referring to Romans 7:1-6?
    I believe this is talking about how we have been loosed from the Old Law, and not the New Law. For we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (with us being married or dedicated to one another in love).

    Symbolically the Sabbath exists... but not literally. If one did not obey the Saturday Sabbath literally in the OT, they would be killed. This is not the case in the NT. The literal Sabbath of observing a day of rest on Saturday (From sundown Friday to sundown Saturday) was a command in the OT. This is not the case for the NT. The Sabbath is merely symbolic now of our rest in Christ. So technically only 9 out of the 10 commands are applicable today. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

    Yes. We need faith. Faith in Christ as our Savior and in seeking His mercy and in believing in His death and resurrection. This is where it starts and it is how we are ultimately saved.

    Now, when you say that if we go back to following the Law, we would be disregarding what Christ died for: Well, this reminds me of Galatians 2:18 that says,
    "For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor."

    This of course ties in with Galatians 2:21 that says,
    "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

    But which Law was Paul talking about? All law?

    Galatians 2:3 says,
    "But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised"

    Galatians 5:2 says,
    "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

    Circumcision is a part of the Old Law, and it is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers.

    Paul said what he did in Galatians 2:3, and Galatians 5:2 because there was a certain sect of Jews who were trying to deceive Christians into thinking they had to FIRST be circumcised in order to be saved (Instead of first placing their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as the entrance gate and ultimate source of salvation).

    This heresy of Circumcision Salvationism is clearly described to us at the Jerusalem counsel:

    "And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. " (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

    "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

    "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

    So this is the context of Galatians 2:18 and Galatians 2:21.
    Folks were trying to be saved by Law Alone via by the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism and Paul was not referring to the Sanctification Process or obeying the commands of Jesus and His followers after we are saved by God's grace.

    We know that the words of Jesus still apply today.

    1 Timothy 6:3-4 says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. Jesus says in John 12:48 that if any man does not receive His words, those words will judge them on the last day. So Jesus's words (His commands) still apply today. They compliment His grace (See: Ephesians 5:25-27, and Titus 2:11-12).

    We are no longer under the Old Law (the 615 commands given to Israel). Also, the Pharisees turned salvation into a system of works (without faith, and mercy in the Messiah, Jesus). This is why Paul spoke in the way that he did about the Law. Paul was not referring to all forms of law keeping after we are saved by God's grace. Paul is referring to being justified by Law Alone without God's grace. Nobody can be saved without God's grace. We do not frustrate God's grace by trying to be justified by Law Alone via by Circumcision Salvationism (i.e. the false belief or heresy at that time that says you had to first be circumcised in order to initially and ultimately saved).

    I am not sure exactly what you are saying here. I am not sure you are aware of it or not, but the popular view of Christianity teaches (contrary to the Bible) that committing grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hating, stealing, etc.) is merely a loss of rewards and not a loss of salvation. There are different degrees of which a believer can do these things (Depending on what flavor of Belief Alone-ism a Christian belongs to these days). Some believe you can sin as much as you like and you are still saved by having a belief on Jesus. One can live a life of doing drugs, sleep with prostitutes, and murder and still be saved by having a belief on Jesus. Some think that they can lie on occasion, or lust at others on occasion, or hate on occasion, and they are still saved even while they did these sins (even without them confessing of such sins and seeking to forsake them entirely). There are different levels of justifying sin. Some say you cannot live a carnal Christian life or you are not saved, but then I heard them turn back around and say they lust after women almost every day. Jesus says, if you look upon a woman in lust, your whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Yet, many today say that Jesus's words here do not apply today or Jesus really did not literally mean what He said.

    The Bible never teaches such a thing. We have the power to crucify grievous sin in our lives by Jesus Christ. That is what it means when Scripture says,

    "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:7).

    For if we are set free from future sin, then why do we have to confess of our sins to Jesus as per 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 2:1?

    In the Parable of the Prodigal Son: We learn that when the son came home, the father said that his son was "dead" and he is "alive again" two times (See: Luke 15:24, and Luke 15:32). The father said that his son was "lost" and now he is "found." Generally when we speak of the "lost" it is referring to those who are lost spiritually. So the prodigal son was dead spiritually when he was living his prodigal life in sin, and he became alive again spiritually when he came back home seeking his father's forgiveness. While the parable can refer to a backslidden believer that needs to be restored back to the faith to the saving of their soul again (See James 5:19-20), the analogy here is our life. Besides those who worship the beast in the future (Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8), everyone has their name written in the book of life since the foundation of the world as a part of Christ's sacrifice. Meaning, if a baby dies, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice. But if a baby grows up, they can fall away into sin like the prodigal son, and they need to seek forgiveness with their Everlasting Father (Jesus) to be restored back home. They need to be born again spiritually, and become "alive again." This proves that grievous sin (like lying, lusting, hating) separates us from God (unless we confess and forsake our sin whereby we will receive mercy - See Proverbs 28:13).
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019 at 8:44 AM
  12. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Is the Law of the Lord today (New Covenant Law) really perfect?

    Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
    Jesus says, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

    1 John 2:5 says, "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."

    The love of God can be perfected within us if we keep His Word.
    The keeping of His Word is obviously His commandments.
    For the context of 1 John 2:5 is 1 John 2:3-4 which talks about the keeping of His commandments. So if you can be perfected by obedience to God's commands, it is logical to conclude that those commands are perfect. Why wouldn't they be? They come from God. The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. The more we obey His commands, we are practicing righteousness and we are going through the Sanctification Process. For if we live after the flesh (sin), we will die (die spiritually), but if we put to death the deeds of the body (sin) via the Holy Spirit, we will live (live spiritually) (See: Romans 8:13 cf. Romans 8:1 in the KJV).

    So yes. The law of the Lord is perfect because it perfects love in our life by our obedience to it.

    The commands that come from Jesus and His followers can convert the soul.
    1 John 3:23 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30 is where it starts.
    Commands of faith whereby we can be changed or converted.
    But there are other commands as a part of Sanctification that changes us, as well.
    To live a holy life by God. For if we walk after the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Galatians 5:16).

    Obeying God's commands helps one to truly understand.

    "And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding." (Job 28:28).

    Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud, and they know nothing (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    Yes. Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17-19). Jesus agrees with the lawyer on the truth that loving God and loving your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

    Proverbs 6:32 says "Whosoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding: he that does it destroys his own soul."

    Jesus Himself says that just looking at a woman in lust (Which is adultery) is potential for a person to be cast bodily in hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30).

    These are commands. By them they are warnings to God's servants not to break them.

    Yes. There is great reward for those who faithful over a few things.

    See Matthew 25:21. But the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (See Matthew 25:30).

    The answer is that God's laws under the New Testament operate in a similar way like they did in the Old in the fact that they play a part of being saved by God's grace through faith in the Messiah. Sanctification by the Spirit by obeying His Word (after we are saved by God's grace).

    Do we ignore God's commands or minimize them because we are saved by grace?

    The answer is... "no."

    While grace most certainly abounds (Romans 5:20), grace also reigns through righteousness (or righteous living) (See Romans 5:21). For the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). For Christ died so that we (the church) can be cleansed by the washing of the water of the Word (Scripture) so that Christ might present to Himself a church that is holy and without blemish (See Ephesians 5:25-27).
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019 at 8:47 AM
  13. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    read psalm 119 and you will see what the law does to a man seeking after God with his whole heart. The law brought conviction and repentance in a nut shell as the man desired to seek God with his whole heart and along the way recognizes his own unrighteousness. Does thinking though shall not lie make you not a liar. But meditating on God being true and confessing your sin brings the grace into your life; like the Bible declares even of the old testament saints they believed God and he accounted it them for righteousness. Even in psalm 119 after doing all the law said and still seeking God with his whole heart and confessing and repenting sin he ends that psalm longing for God's salvation and calls for the Lord to come after him as a sheep that went astray. He had no assurance in his own keeping of the law but assurance in who God is and his mercies towards those who seek him. This is faith producing repentance and still knowing we have fallen short and are totally reliant on God to save us.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not true. Psalms 119:11 says,

    "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee."
    (Psalms 119:11).​

    How can David hide God's Word in his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord if things are as you say?

    Psalms 119:44 says,

    "So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever."
    (Psalms 119:44).​

    Psalms 119:136 says,

    "Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law."
    (Psalms 119:136).​

    Zacharias and his wife walked in all of God's commandments and they were blameless; For Luke 1:5-6 says,

    5 "There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
    6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless." (Luke 1:5-6).​

    So yeah, I am not sure you are reading the same Bible that I am reading, dear sir.
     
  15. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Do we ignore or minimize them because we got grace?

    Nope

    Romans 3

    31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

    The 10 Commandments stand eternally, by the grace and sacrifice of our Lord we are not condemned by them ... but by no means are we to ignore them or minimize.

    Christ magnified the law ... gave more details into their depth didn't get rid of them.

    ie .. if you hate your brother... murder in the heart
    look at a woman ... adultery in the heart

    John 14:21
    Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."
     
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Belief Alone Proponents (or those who believe they can abide in some kind of sin on some level and still be saved, i.e. the theological position that says we not condemned by the Law) fall into two major categories in regards to the Law. Some believe that primarily the New Testament commands are binding today (and the Old Law is not binding as a whole). Others within this belief hold to the view that all of the Old Testament commands or some of the ceremonial laws (like the Sabbath, etc.), and most of the New Testament commands are for today and they are eternal and binding.

    Two problems with this kind of belief:

    Problem #1. - This belief is falsely claiming that the Old Law or some ceremonial laws of the Old Law like the Sabbath are eternal and are still in effect today.

    Problem #2. - This belief is falsely claiming that we cannot be condemned by the Law (i.e. We cannot be condemned by disobeying God's laws).​


    I. "Dealing with Problem #1 in light of what the Bible says:"

    A. Jesus was making changes to the Law:

    Jesus was making changes to the Law (even before the New Covenant went officially into effect with His death). For Jesus was primarily teaching New Covenant teachings and not Old Covenant teachings during His earthly ministry.

    How so?

    Jesus clearly was making changes to the Law (even before the cross):
    (Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

    The Old Way says:
    "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
    (Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

    The New Way (by Jesus) says:
    "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


    The Old Way says:
    "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

    The New Way (by Jesus) says:
    "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


    The Old Way says:
    "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

    The New Way (by Jesus) says:
    34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
    35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
    36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
    37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


    The Old Way says:
    "And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

    "And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

    "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

    16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
    17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

    "They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

    The New Way (by Jesus) says:
    "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

    Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


    The Old Way says:
    20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
    21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
    22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

    4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
    5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

    The New Way (by Jesus) says:
    "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


    Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

    The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
    "And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

    Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
    "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
    (Galatians 5:2).


    The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
    32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
    33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
    34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
    35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
    36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

    Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

    So it appears things have changed.

    This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

    "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
    (Hebrews 7:12).

    “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
    (John 1:17).

    Jesus said,
    "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).

    Jesus came not to abolish the Law (in the sense of destroying all forms of Law), but Jesus came to fulfill the Law (i.e. to nail to the cross those ordinances that were against us [like the Old Covenant ceremonial laws], and Jesus came to give us a more fulfilled and perfect way of obeying God via the commands that come directly from Him and His followers). For Jesus offered a more perfect way of loving God, and loving our neighbor (Which of course is only possible via if we are first saved by God's grace through faith).​


    B. The Old Law (as a whole or Contractually speaking) is no more:

    In the New Covenant (or New Testament), Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole).

    How so?

    Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

    "When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

    ”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

    "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

    "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

    20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
    (Colossians 2:20-23).

    “By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

    "The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

    9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
    10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

    16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
    17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

    ”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

    27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
    28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

    50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

    8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

    “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

    “But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

    “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

    28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
    29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

    7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
    9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
    10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
    11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

    “But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

    (Note: This post will be continued in my next post).

     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 9:41 AM
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    II. "Dealing with Problem #2 in light of what the Bible says:"

    Introduction:

    Believers are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace (i.e. Jesus Christ). It is why a person who comes to Jesus for the first time can have an assurance of salvation (Without doing any kind of work). Initial and ultimate salvation is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are not ultimately saved by works of righteousness we have done alone without God's mercy (Titus 3:5). For even if a believer were to stumble into sin, do they get clean by doing another work? No. They get clean by confessing their sins to Jesus (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) and they ask Jesus to help them to overcome their sin (or to forsake it) (Matthew 26:41) (Romans 13:14) (John 15:5). But make no mistake, Scripture is also abundantly clear in that it teaches we are saved by "works of faith" after we are saved by God's grace, too. Simply click on the following spoiler button to check out the verses.

    After we are saved by God's grace,
    God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


    (Here are a List of Verses):


    “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

    "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

    "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

    "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

    "...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

    "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

    "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

    “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

    “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

    "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

    “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

    And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

    “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

    "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

    ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

    "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

    “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

    "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

    "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

    ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

    "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

    “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

    "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

    “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

    “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

    “...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

    ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

    “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

    ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

    ”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

    ”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

    ”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

    ”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

    “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

    Anyways, there are five things (as a whole) in the Bible that people are not getting when they read Paul, and thus they easily misunderstand him in justifying a false "sin and still be saved" or "Belief Alone" type gospel (Which is no doubt appealing because it means that a person does not have to change their life all that much and they can live for themselves instead of the Lord). But Jesus says, "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? (Luke 6:46) (NHEB).

    Here are the 5 things (as a whole) in Scripture that your average Christian does not understand when they read Paul:

    #1. The Bible teaches that there is a change of the Law (Hebrews 7:12); So when Paul talks about the "Law" (generically), he is referring to the Torah, i.e. the Old Law (or the many laws given to Moses and Israel) and not the commandments given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers (i.e. the New Law or New Testament Law). All one has to do is look at the context to see that Paul was referring to the "Old Law" when he spoke generically of the "law." But if one believes the Law has not changed in some way, it will merely prove to themselves of the impossibility of keeping God's laws (and thus they are forced to conclude that they can abide in sin on some level and still be saved).

    #2. Paul was fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" (Which is Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace); A certain sect of Jews were trying to deceive some Christians into thinking they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved. This was a heresy that was clearly addressed at the Jerusalem council (See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also addressed this problem; Paul said to the Galatians that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul mentions how if you seek to be justified by the Law, you have fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4). This "law" is the Torah because circumcision is not a part of the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers.

    #3. An Understanding on the Pharisee's false beliefs according to the Bible:

    A. Christian Belief Alone Proponents (or those who think they can abide in some kind of sin on some level and still be saved) do not understand that the Pharisees sometimes ignored God's grace like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (Luke 18:9-14) and this was not at the expense of upholding basic morality. For in this parable, the problem of the Pharisee is that he was not crying out to God for forgiveness of his sins like the tax collector was doing. So the Pharisee needed to get his heart right with God first. In short, the Pharisee was making salvation all about works with no emphasis on God's grace as the entrance gate and foundation of his faith. Hence, why Paul fought against "Works Alone Salvationism" without God's grace. But what they fail to realize is that Jesus was not endorsing the tax collector to continue in his sin the rest of his life by merely paying lip service because Jesus also told two people to "sin no more" (See John 5:14, and John 8:11).

    B. Some (not all) Christian Belief Alone Proponents (or those who believe they can abide in sin on some level and still be saved) think that the Pharisees kept the letter of the Law or they kept the Law perfectly and this was their problem. They say that the Pharisees kept the letter of the Law but not the spirit of the Law. However, these kinds of statements are not true. For Jesus said that the problem of the Pharisees was that they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (See Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42). So Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees not keeping the Law; And Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ, and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud, and gives grace to the humble.​

    #4. The Bible teaches that sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

    #5. The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 9:58 AM
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31).

    Paul is saying we uphold the Old Law (we uphold what came before) in the sense that we are to serve in newness of Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

    "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).​

    The serving in newness of spirit would obviously be by way of the New Testament Scriptures that they were writing at that time. No mention of the Sabbath as a command is repeated or emphasized in the New Testament. On the contrary, Colossians 2 says we are not to judge according to sabbaths, etc.

    Paul says we can fulfill the Law by loving our neighbor.

    "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8).​

    This means that we fulfill or uphold the Old Law by loving in the New way. The context of loving one another is the Moral Law (like: Do not covet, do not murder, do not steal, etc.) and not ceremonial laws towards God (See Romans 13:8-10).

    A person could be stoned for not keeping the Saturday Sabbath. This is why it was called the law of sin and death in Romans 8:2. There are two laws mentioned in Romans 8:2. There is:

    #1. "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Defined for us in Romans 8:1, see this verse in the KJV for the more fuller and or complete version). This is a New Covenant Law and not an Old Covenant Law.

    #2. "The Law of Sin and Death." This is the Law we are made free from. This is the Old Covenant Law and not the New Covenant Law.​

    "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

    Keeping one law makes us free from the other law.

    Yes, Jesus says if one looks upon a woman in lust, they can be cast bodily into hell fire (See Matthew 5:28-30). These words have not be done away with because Jesus says if any man does not receive His words, those words will judge them on the last day (See: John 12:48), and Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4). Even John (after the cross), says if you hate your brother, you are like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. So even after the cross, disobeying God's laws causes condemnation. So a belief alone in Jesus (while one continues to abide in sin or to disobey God's laws on some level) does not save.

    For do you think Jesus said to certain believers who did wonderful works to depart from Him? It was because they worked iniquity or sin. It is why Jesus did not know them. For 1 John 2:3 says we can have an assurance in knowing the Lord if we find that we are keeping His commandments. The person who says they know the Lord and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.

    Right, so we have to keep His commandments if we truly love Jesus.
    For Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed (See 1 Corinthians 16:22).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 9:35 AM
  19. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    "#5. The Bible teaches that obedience to God's commands is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14). CORRECT ("tied to eternity"), the 10 are eternal Laws."

    Obedience to the Law (the 10)... and when we accept Jesus He begins transforming us into His image of Love ... helping us to become more like Him ... (a life long transformation) to keep the Law (the 10) with the MOTIVE being Love ... not works.

    The letter of the law is keeping them (the 10) thinking by our works (without love) one can be saved ... not so ...
    they are kept out of Love .... and this is where the Pharisees etc. messed up .... they had the wrong motive. They were not keeping the commandments out of LOVE.

    1 John 4:16

    And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

    God IS love. The 10 Commandments are laws of Love. Love is eternal, because God is eternal.

    Psalms 136:26

    Give thanks to the God of heaven!
    His love is eternal.

    John 14:15

    “If you love me, you will (because I will help you) keep my commandments.

    We will never (by ourselves) keep them perfectly, but we are to strive to do so (responding to His love) because He loves us and we love Him.

    Philippians 3:14

    I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    He will finish HIS work of love in us

    Philippians 1:6

    And I am sure of this, that HE who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

    The 10 Commandments are Laws of Love, eternal, and no reason whatsoever to get rid of them, or change them ... they are perfect.

    Psalm 19:7
    The law of the Lord (the 10) is perfect, converting (transforming) the soul (person):

    John 15:10

    9As the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you. Remain in My love. 10If you keep My commandments (the 10), you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Yes, if you love the Lord, you will keep His commandments. That is what I am saying.
    Paul says if a person does not love the Lord (i.e. not keep His commandments) they are accursed (See 1 Corinthians 16:22). One has to keep the commandments of loving God and loving one's neighbor to inherit eternal life (See Luke 10:25-28); This truth is confirmed even after the cross with 1 John 3:15 (i.e. a person does not have eternal life abiding in them if they hate their brother). The Bible here is talking about "eternal LIFE" (salvation) and not your belief that says that “the 10 are eternal.”

    The Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding because Colossians 2 says we are not to judge according to Sabbaths, and no commands of any kind are given for us to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the New Covenant. Christ nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. The point here is that we are to keep New Covenant Law (and not Old Covenant Law) as a part of salvation (after we are saved by God’s grace).
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 12:38 PM
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