Can Satan control wrong people who are not demon-possessed?

[com7fy8]

And can we use the Bible to know who Satan is using to try to trick us and take us the wrong way?

I started this thread in order for such questions to be discussed . . . because in another thread >

What would you suggest about demon possession itself @com7fy8? You mention something easy as though you can be able to tell if someone is trying to trick any another ; and you have scripture to be able to tell?

What if it is someone who is simply misinformed or they are just maliciously doing something to stir trouble and it has nothing to with Satan or his demons but pure choice?

So, @GallagherM > in case my questions represent what you are asking . . . we can share about this, here. Or you can clarify for us. Thank you

Just to get started > my opinion is that Satan can fully possess a person, or he can control someone without it being an obvious possession. One scripture that I go by for this idea is in Ephesians 2:2 where our Apostle Paul says there is >

"the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

From this, I get that any disobedience can be caused by Satan's spirit working a person to disobey God's word. Though the disobedient person might seem like a "normal" person not obviously possessed, still he or she can be worked-in by Satan's disobedient spirit.

And yes we can use God's word to help us to see how someone is wrong, so we do not trust or go along with him or her.

But what if the person has a convincing act, even offering us what appears to be honorable? Well, the Bible might not directly speak against what the person is doing . . . outwardly . . . but God knows the person's real motives and how he or she really is. And if we are submissive to God, He can guide us according to what He knows so we do not commit ourselves to someone who is a very clever actor.

And yes we have scriptures to help us to stay with God so we are guided according to what He knows > an object lesson is Joshua 9:1-14, and we have Proverbs 3:5-6, with Romans 8:14, with Colossians 3:15 and how Jesus says we will have "rest for your souls" while we do what Jesus really has us doing > consider Matthew 11:28-30, please. These, to me, indicate I can be personally guided by God, all the time, so no one can trick me . . . even if I don't know they are tricky > God just keeps guiding me according to what He knows is really going on

And, by the way . . . while we are at it > never mind only being concerned about not being fooled by anyone else. Worry, right inside of us, can be a pathological liar and very cruel abuser. Yet, are we wise to worry? The Bible can help us to be > Philippians 4:5-6, 1 John 4:18. And if worry is so full of lying and cruelty . . . who might be the suspect who is causing worry? After all, Satan is cruel and a liar!! > John 8:44 < yes, this is in the Bible - - - so we can know we need to pray for God to win in us against how worry would abuse and deceive us.

And worry can be possessing in our feelings and thinking and emotions, can't it? So, it might not be classic possession, but this does not mean it is innocent; after all, worry can make us disobedient to how God would rule us in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

So . . . by the way . . . in the other thread we were talking about sola scriptura, and here I am offering how the scriptures do give us things to help us to stay with God so we can't be fooled, even when there might be very well-rigged evidence > "'Do not judge according to appearance,'" Jesus Himself says, "'but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

So, yes Satan can control wrong people to mess with us and fool us, even if they are not demon possessed. And things like worry, right inside of us, can torment and trick us away from God. But God's word gives us enough so we can know to look to God and depend on Him to keep us from being fooled and abused by Satanic stuff and people.

 

[BobRyan]

Just to get started > my opinion is that Satan can fully possess a person, or he can control someone without it being an obvious possession. One scripture that I go by for this idea is in Ephesians 2:2 where our Apostle Paul says there is >

"the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

From this, I get that any disobedience can be caused by Satan's spirit working a person to disobey God's word. Though the disobedient person might seem like a "normal" person not obviously possessed, still he or she can be worked-in by Satan's disobedient spirit.

Good point.

Eph 2:
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

2 Cor 4:
3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

 

[Sabertooth]

Paul, writing to believers,
"Don’t you know that you are slaves of [whomever] you obey?

You can be slaves of sin and die, or
you can be obedient slaves of God and be acceptable to him."​

Romans 6:16 CEV​

Gotta Serve Somebody, Bob Dylan (1979)

 

[timothyu]

We are all dual natured. We operate on animal instinct which is our self serving side that gets us in trouble, and we also have the agape nature within us of God. Unfortunately survival instinct has the upper hand so there is no real reason for anyone to be possessed a satan like we see in the movies, as we are quite capable of going off track our adversarial selves. Possession in Jesus' day was seen as good and bad and the good spirits that moved in were allowed to remain in a person while the bad were often thrown out and there were as many in thriving businesses casting out spirits in those days as there are coffee shops today. Today we call the shrinks and psychologists and even put them in schools to put spirits into the kids minds.

 

[Jay Sea]

We are all dual natured. We operate on animal instinct which is our self serving side that gets us in trouble, and we also have the agape nature within us of God. Unfortunately survival instinct has the upper hand so there is no real reason for anyone to be possessed a satan like we see in the movies, as we are quite capable of going off track our adversarial selves. Possession in Jesus' day was seen as good and bad and the good spirits that moved in were allowed to remain in a person while the bad were often thrown out and there were as many in thriving businesses casting out spirits in those days as there are coffee shops today. Today we call the shrinks and psychologists and even put them in schools to put spirits into the kids minds.

There is no possession. I don't think there ever was. Even today some people blame satan, not facing their own responsibility or admitting the contribution of friends etc. all of human origin.
In LOve
Jay Sea

 

[Bobber]

There is no possession. I don't think there ever was. Even today some people blame satan, not facing their own responsibility or admitting the contribution of friends etc. all of human origin.
In LOve
Jay Sea

I see in your profile you have Christian down. This would have to mean then that you're a Christian which really can't be taking the accounts of the New Testament seriously....for read the various accounts where Jesus cast out spirits. It seems to be mentioned repeatedly.

 

[Jay Sea]

I see in your profile you have Christian down. This would have to mean then that you're a Christian which really can't be taking the accounts of the New Testament seriously....for read the various accounts where Jesus cast out spirits. It seems to be mentioned repeatedly.

I believe that Yeshua treated people within their culture. If he had come today he would act within the concepts of our culture and knowledge
In LOve
Jay Sea

 

[GallagherM]

Though you may not agree with me here on this it is okay.

The reason for that is because my thoughts on this though you may believe that we live in that generation where Satan had demons that did possess people; that generation has come and past.

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Matthew 24.

Many people read this today @com7fy8 ans say things like oh the disciples did not really know what Jesus was talking about, or they make up imaginatively that it’s a double folded prophetic message.

Jesus Christ called his twelve disciples to him privately at least in this account here in Matthew to himself and explained what was going to happen to the destruction of Israel, and I also believe Satan and his demons.

So for me in my i view there are two questions that need to be asked;


Was Jesus Christ lying?
Was the disciples lied to about it happening in their generation?

Having read the new living translation you can go really quick through it reading and not stop; I believe it’s easy for people to read and they can miss details that might help then really see what is happening in context.

Since I believe what Jesus Christ said was true; that He would come back before they reached every house (I think) in Israel. That he came and got the bride the first believers in Christ in that generation. According to Revelation Satan was defeated.

This the very clear cut view that has been made know to me.

Your view of emotions possessing us ; is
like not having self-control. The spirit can help with this; as you know from (Galatians 5:22-25). It’s very hard to have self control without the spirit. You may believe Satan possesses people if you desire to, believe that self choice is there; but some choices may be under the influence of mind altering drugs or drink or simply just hate driven; it depends on the individual.

But if you believe differently that is okay, I love you anyway just to be clear.

everyone should be allowed to have their own view but that is my perspective which is been made known above.

 

[com7fy8]

Gotta Serve Somebody

"'No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.'" (Matthew 6:24)

 

[Bobber]

I believe that Yeshua treated people within their culture. If he had come today he would act within the concepts of our culture and knowledge
In LOve
Jay Sea

So Jay that means therefore that when it states (just to give a couple of examples) that when Jesus spoke to the spirit in the mad man of the Gerasenes then none of that really happened.....or that Jesus was just putting this on?

They sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is across the lake from Galilee. When Jesus stepped ashore, he was met by a demon-possessed man from the town. For a long time this man had not worn clothes or lived in a house, but had lived in the tombs. When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don’t torture me!” For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, (what seized him? The spirit) and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places. Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And they (the spirits) begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss. Luke 8:26 So you're saying as a Christian this never really happened?

Or “And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils”. Luke 8:2 So none of that is to be taken seriously, when the scriptures' stated it actually occurred?

I believe that Yeshua treated people within their culture. If he had come today he would act within the concepts of our culture and knowledge

I can't say there isn't in any sense of the word that couldn't be true but not when it comes to salvation or from being delivered from demonic power. Paul the Apostle always looked for things in certain cultures as he said just like your poets have said Acts 17:27 ....well similarly speaking.....but that's not departing from the way and manner by which people need delivered. If culture denies there are unseen dark spiritual powers then consider they're off of actual truth and reality.

 

[timothyu]

Consider this. Angels are eternal beings, so it would be assumed their offspring with human woman, once wiped out by the flood would be left to wander bodiless unless they found a suitable substitute home to share. Resurrection is not in the cards for them as unlike us, their angel side could not die and be stored in the cloud until awakening. They are called legion for they are many. Their time, like ours, in the lake of fire is not yet come.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

And can we use the Bible to know who Satan is using to try to trick us and take us the wrong way?

I started this thread in order for such questions to be discussed . . . because in another thread >

So, @GallagherM > in case my questions represent what you are asking . . . we can share about this, here. Or you can clarify for us. Thank you

Just to get started > my opinion is that Satan can fully possess a person, or he can control someone without it being an obvious possession. One scripture that I go by for this idea is in Ephesians 2:2 where our Apostle Paul says there is >

"the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (in Ephesians 2:2).

From this, I get that any disobedience can be caused by Satan's spirit working a person to disobey God's word. Though the disobedient person might seem like a "normal" person not obviously possessed, still he or she can be worked-in by Satan's disobedient spirit.

And yes we can use God's word to help us to see how someone is wrong, so we do not trust or go along with him or her.

But what if the person has a convincing act, even offering us what appears to be honorable? Well, the Bible might not directly speak against what the person is doing . . . outwardly . . . but God knows the person's real motives and how he or she really is. And if we are submissive to God, He can guide us according to what He knows so we do not commit ourselves to someone who is a very clever actor.

And yes we have scriptures to help us to stay with God so we are guided according to what He knows > an object lesson is Joshua 9:1-14, and we have Proverbs 3:5-6, with Romans 8:14, with Colossians 3:15 and how Jesus says we will have "rest for your souls" while we do what Jesus really has us doing > consider Matthew 11:28-30, please. These, to me, indicate I can be personally guided by God, all the time, so no one can trick me . . . even if I don't know they are tricky > God just keeps guiding me according to what He knows is really going on

And, by the way . . . while we are at it > never mind only being concerned about not being fooled by anyone else. Worry, right inside of us, can be a pathological liar and very cruel abuser. Yet, are we wise to worry? The Bible can help us to be > Philippians 4:5-6, 1 John 4:18. And if worry is so full of lying and cruelty . . . who might be the suspect who is causing worry? After all, Satan is cruel and a liar!! > John 8:44 < yes, this is in the Bible - - - so we can know we need to pray for God to win in us against how worry would abuse and deceive us.

And worry can be possessing in our feelings and thinking and emotions, can't it? So, it might not be classic possession, but this does not mean it is innocent; after all, worry can make us disobedient to how God would rule us in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

So . . . by the way . . . in the other thread we were talking about sola scriptura, and here I am offering how the scriptures do give us things to help us to stay with God so we can't be fooled, even when there might be very well-rigged evidence > "'Do not judge according to appearance,'" Jesus Himself says, "'but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

So, yes Satan can control wrong people to mess with us and fool us, even if they are not demon possessed. And things like worry, right inside of us, can torment and trick us away from God. But God's word gives us enough so we can know to look to God and depend on Him to keep us from being fooled and abused by Satanic stuff and people.

I agree with your overall point, but I suggest that you always look at the context of a verse to interpret it correctly or let you understand it more. For example, your first verse, Ephesians 2:2, is in the middle of verses 1 and 3, in which Paul makes a clear point that we are all spiritually-stillborn when we enter this world and, yes, slaves of Satan. So, slaves of Satan can try to lead us astray. But if we are true Christians who have come alive and elevated into heaven now through our prayers (verses 4-7), all by unearned grace through faith (verses 8-9) in order to do God's good works which are the result of his powerful work in our lives (verse 10), our prayerful focus on God will enable us to be protected from Satan.