Can salvation occur after death?

[Smoky]

What do you all think about it? Do you think there is ever a time in this world or the next when God no longer loves the sinner? Do you think that some will change their minds in the next life and want to repent? I enjoy "your alls" community. I think you are good thinkers.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What do you all think about it?

I think yes and no. yes in the sense that you never lose your free will, and we do have saints who have had visions of sinners dying, being in torment, and leaving the torment. but no in that if you take an unrepentant sinful nature when you meet God, His very presence will torment you.

Do you think there is ever a time in this world or the next when God no longer loves the sinner?

He always loves the sinner. if the sinner responds to that love, God's presence is Light and illumination. if the sinner rejects God's love, then it is fire and torment. as St Maximos the Confessor points out, the same sun will both harden clay and melt wax.

Do you think that some will change their minds in the next life and want to repent?

only God knows that one

 

[Joseph Hazen]

What ArmyMatt said. One is unlikely to have a sudden change of heart after death (after all, we become more set in our ways, not less as we age) but it *is* conceivably possible. After death one is always in the presence of God, and He never stops loving us and attempting to bring us closer to Him.

 

[Lukaris]

It seems possible then that we can have a sense of hope for someone like the rich man in the parable with suffering Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)? The rich man's expression of remorse seems more than mere regret but I am unsure if it reflects sufficient repentance although his concern for his remaining brothers must be notable. I know it is best to not pursue such matters too far but I guess we just pray by the 2 great commands for the earthly living & departed as best we can.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It seems possible then that we can have a sense of hope for someone like the rich man in the parable with suffering Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)? The rich man's expression of remorse seems more than mere regret but I am unsure if it reflects sufficient repentance although his concern for his remaining brothers must be notable. I know it is best to not pursue such matters too far but I guess we just pray by the 2 great commands for the earthly living & departed as best we can.

I think we would say it doesn't reflect actual repentance, since his only request was how Lazarus could aide him in his current state. if he truly repented, he would have first asked how to get out (even if it were impossible).

 

[~Anastasia~]

Nothing much to add - subscribing.

This was something I had to ask Fr. M. about, since I had wondered why we pray for the deceased if they cannot change their condition after death?

I have been told that we don't limit God, we always hope for His mercy, and of course the final judgment has not yet happened. But we never tell anyone that they can repent after death, because we are not at all sure about that. No one should put off seeking God. But we do hope for mercy for those we pray for. However that manifests.

There are also stories of some small measure of comfort, at least, as a result of prayers. Not having to do with salvation, but just assuaging what they experience in various ways.

Anyway, i always found those questions very interesting.